Bad Mckenzie Friend!

[brokemybank]

Hi all,

I'm new here and was after some advice.

My ex has custody of our daughter (aged 12) who would now like to live with me. I asked a Mckenzie friend for help, he said it would be no problem, i just needed to pay him for filing the papers with the courts and for his time to fill them in. i paid him the money and waited for a week. Nothing. I called him and he said a hearing was taking place the following week that i didn't need to attend and that my ex had been served with the papers. I know my ex and if he had the papers, there is no way he wouldn't say anything to me, i heard nothing from him. The MF said he was likely staying quiet because he was going to contest it but he'd send me a report of the 'serving of papers' again, i had nothing. after the first hearing had happened, i asked if there was an outcome, the MF said yes, there is a hearing i need to attend in 3 weeks, i said ok, can i have the papers to confirm when and where it is for my own peace of mind. He agreed to send them on 3 different occasions, nothing ever arrived. I then called the local family court to see what was happening, they hadn't heard of me or the case. I told MF this and he agreed to meet up with me the following day, he didn't show up at 2 different arranged times. i asked for my money back which he agreed to, but again nothing happened! i threatened to call the police, he said he was transferring the money back to me and sending my papers, to date i've had nothing, i don't know what to do and need some help from someone, i doubt very much the police can do anything, i can provide details of this person to stop anyone else being duped by him but right now, my concern is my daughter and getting my money back so i can proceed with the court case myself. Any advice is gratefully appreciated.

I was putting in an application a few months back and a MF filed papers on behalf of someone else and got a receipt! I was shocked because I believe this not to be right.. and I couldn't even get a receipt for mine!

Sorry to hear you have been had brokemybank... I hope u report him, asap.

The rules concerning McKenzie Friends are clear and a they should not be acting as agents...meaning that they shouldn't be filing papers on behalf of litigants in person. I also know of McKenzie Friends who tell prospective clients that they will get rights of audience - something they cannot guarantee, shouldn't even suggest they should nor should they expect it. A worst case scenario could see someone who isn't up to speaking in court being expected to do so.

If the McKenzie Friend in this thread is on the FNF list, report him to head office. People have been removed. It's worth noting that everyone on that list should be signed up to a Charter outlining how they should and shouldn't work.

As others have said - Google anyone you're considering using. I'm on a few lists, google my name and you'll find me on a website and information about me on my LinkedIn profile. I advise anyone calling me to shop around because it is a serious business.

No shock that there are bad apples though...I've even met one or two bad solicitors and barristers...

The case is now in the hands of trading standards and police. There are many, many people they have done this to and i hope justice will be served when/if this goes to trial. I hold his wife equally responsible for this, no one can be that clueless or stupid!

On another note:

There are dodgy Solicitors and Barristers - See the 'Solicitors from Hell' website.

There are also dodgy McKenzie Friends.

Thing is, you will lose substantially less with a dodgy Mckenzie Friend than a dodgy lawyer.

You should check out McKenzie Friends very carefully as you should do with Solicitors and Barristers....

Rogues amongst the lot of them, but very good ones as well.

I am very sorry to hear of your McKenzie Friend debacle. The person you paid money to is like no MF I have ever heard of. Most charge a pittance for their help compared to solicitors (many at about £10 to £20 per hour) and are far more approachable. I would like to hear what happened in your case, if you can let us know.

Noelrobx, charging 'a pittance' does not make a McKenzie Friend superior to a solicitor. There's a reason they charge less - because they're unqualified. Crikey. I think I'll start charging people money to be a psychiatrist friend. I'm like a psychiatrist, only I don't have a medical degree, or done a psychiatry speciality, or done any vocational training at all, and I haven't qualified in any way, shape, or form. But I'm nice, I've read a bit of stuff and done a few courses and I only charge £5ph. Clearly I am better for my clients...

Most contact cases aren't legally complicated though. Legal aid has been pulled and people are struggling to cover the cost of being represented in one of the slowest and most inefficient systems I have had the misfortune to be involved in.
We had a barrister, cost us £1K and her advice set us back 9 months in terms of case progression. We have no recourse there. Our solicitor bill touched £1500 before we even got unsupervised contact and there's literally no reason for there not to be - no DV, no drugs/alcohol, no long gaps with no contact, just an anxious RP with a slippery solicitor... The system is dreadful and there are plenty of solicitors who know how to drag cases out without breaking any regulations.
Yes, regulation would be helpful but McKenzie Friends do have a place here where the relevant law isn't complex or where a LIP would be going in alone. Our MF is very helpful and actually our case only progressed when we did the exact opposite of the barristers advice. We have also learned a lot ourselves.

Munkysea, calm down! Where did I say MFs were superior to solicitors? Yes, most MFs are unqualified in family law. I don't have an electrician's qualification but I can wire a plug. I am not a qualified mechanic but I can change an oil filter. I'm not a qualified cook but I can rustle up a decent omelette. How can you compare the family courts with psychiatry? Family lawyers are the most over-rated 'professionals' I have ever met. The words 'money', 'old' and 'rope' come springing to mind. It's about time we demystified family law and encouraged ordinary people to take charge of their own lives. Yes, solicitors probably know what words to use when addressing the judge but is that worth £500 per hour?

I am calm. I will cop to sarcasm, though. ;)

Hmm, very useful.

The partners in my place don't charge £500ph, and certainly not the solicitors either. If a party is paying £500ph for a solicitor, then it's their money and they're free to spend it how they wish, and they've probably instructed Mischon de Reya or a firm like that. I appreciate you're exaggerating for effect, but it ignores a) fixed costs, such as what babybarrister quoted above, b) not all solicitors charge £500ph, c) fixed costs negotiated between client and solicitor and d) that a legal executive/legal executive advocate who would be cheaper than a solicitor, but still be qualified and regulated, can undertake the family law work too. Of course, legal executives do have to be supervised by an authorised person (usually a solicitor) if undertaking reserved activities.

No, sorry, not exaggerating for effect. My 5th solicitor (1st 4 were useless money-grubbing thieves) cost £275 plus VAT (£330) per hour and the 6th was £500 per hour; both 10 years ago. I am in London, which may well have added to costs and they may well be more now. I spent over £20k on 3 hearings with sol/barristers.
What 'fixed costs' are you talking about? Court application costs were extra, I'm just talking about payments to the lawyers at their hourly rate. All the talk about junior barristers and legal executives is nonsense because when you know nothing about legal matters and are fighting to see your child again all that is never mentioned by sols.

Ok. I'd be narked about paying £500ph nowadays, let alone 10 years ago.

Junior barristers are often worse than useless in the family courts; they often don't seem to understand that it is not a battle over law in the family courts.

Most cases are about simple concepts of a schedule of care or holidays or similar, and need sensitive and experienced help. Junior barristers running around with their red book looking for a fight, cause no end of mayhem in the courts and bump up their wage packets as well by stoking the fires.

They read the brief the night before or on the train on the way to Court; then talk a lot but without any real effect on seasoned Judges who politely listen but ignore them for the most part.

Money down the drain generally.

According to the Legal Services Consumer Panel (law watchdog), yesterday:

"Fee-charging McKenzie Friends provide valuable support to people and improve access to justice in the large majority of cases."

The legal watchdog, the Legal Services Consumer Panel also said that it was the 'junior' lawyers who did not understand or appreciate the benefit to the system of fee-charging McKenzie Friends.

What a surprise, not after reading the 'junior' lawyers on here carping and not very surprisingly, offer little in the line of a persuadable argument. Very poor!

Judges and senior lawyers often appreciated that people had a fee-charging McKenzie Friend to assist them as it helped the Court and gave these people access to justice, they would not otherwise have.

‘Culture change’ needed to embrace fee-charging McKenzie friends

www.lawgazette.co.uk/practice/culture-change-needed-to-embrace-fee-charging-mckenzie-friends/5040875.article