Any legaleagles want to help me take on some nasty council bullies?

[RightToRemainSilent]

I'm a regular but I've namechanged.

My local authority intend to issue a fixed penalty notice for a 'bin crime'. That is, as soon as they've ascertained my home address. In pursuing me, they have quite possibly overstepped the line into the area of harassment. I can't bear bullies and I think I want to take them on.

In short, I am trying to do up a property which has been empty for months so it can be rented. (I dash there between school runs and do the best I can) One day recently whilst at the house working I noticed the neighbours putting their stuff out for the bin lorries, and noted that at least one neighbour had placed black bin bags in addition to recycling. Not knowing the local schedule (I do not live in the area) it seemed a fair assumption that it was black bin bag day.
Two black bin bags were placed outside the property boundary for collection. This was the only time in 5 entire months that anything had been put out for a bin collection.
I left for the school run. Upon returning to the property 4 days later, I found the bags still there, covered in official tape "examined for evidence". Clearly it was the wrong week for black bags. I found a card through the door addressed to the occupier (there is none) saying an enforcement officer had called, and to call a number ASAP.

Oh, how I wish I hadn't called the number. I was trying to be so helpful and co-operative. Twit.

The upshot is, that many discussions later, an enforcement officer who believes I made an admission of guilt to him over a mobile phone conversation intends to "track me down", "find out where I live". "deliver a FPN to me in person if need be" and will use "my word against his in a court of law, but since he's an officer he's confident his word will be believed over mine". He also has said "You are lying" to me, and his manager has informed me that if I don't "cooperate" and give them my home address so that they can issue this patently unfair fine, then that's a separate offence too.

Right to remain silent? Apparently not. Burden of proof? Nah. Invasion of privacy going through my refuse looking for documents? Who cares. Harassment? Quite possibly.

They want to take me to court (I've told them I will not pay an unjust fine) and make me suffer for daring to challenge this.

Of course I could just pay up and seethe. Except that if they can bully me they can certainly bully little old ladies who get the bin day wrong. Nasty, cowardly,profiteering bullies who know full well they are extorting money at every opportunity for nothing more than innocent, first time mistakes. I know the government is legislating soon to prevent councils from doing this kind of thing, but sadly not soon enough to help me.

So, what do I do?

(thanks for reading essay)

Surely the council would have access to your address and details from council tax? Is it a scam?

That's what I thought surely they know you are the owner, you must re paying council tax on the property?

Presumably yes to paying council tax given that she expects the rubbish to be taken away!!!

yes, I fully expect them to use council tax details, I'm just unsure whether they are restricted from passing details from department to department because of the Data Protection act. The only information they have regarding this incident is what I stupidly gave them.
The last occupier of the property was not me.
Definitely not a scam.

What are you actually accused of? In our area, if you put the wrong bin out, they just ignore it! Why would a Council Officer come around and hunt in the bag for evidence of identity? Were you not entitled to put rubbish out at all because you are not paying Council Tax on the property? If you are, I'm not sure why they even needed you to call them, they could have just issued a fine through the post?

the 'offence' of putting a bin bag out on the wrong day is considered littering.
The council has a taskforce of people going around the streets looking for bags on the wrong day.
They then root through the bags looking for evidence of where the bag came from; letters addressed, bills etc.
The offence requires them to have some evidence of Who placed the bag there. This is confirmed through an admission of guilt during the subsequent visit by the enforcement officer.
If you admit it, you get a FPN.
If you don't speak to them, they have nothing to go on.
If you refuse to pay the fine, it goes to court. At least until the legislation is passed later this year.

I'm unsure what burden of proof would be required by a court. Is it sufficient to say "I spoke to a woman on the phone who says it's her property, I believe she did it. Never met her though, didn't see her do it. Haven't got a recorded admission. May have found something relating to that address but not to her in the bags. "

I mean, it's not exactly compelling is it? I would hope a court needed actual evidence. But I have no legal knowledge.

Can anyone with legal expertise suggest what to do please?

I would imagine they would have to prove there was an 'intent' to litter rather than an error regarding collection days.

Although they would argue that they clealy publicise collection days on their website and council tax bills / leaflets thereby removing ignorance as a defence.

Presumably they discovered the waste bags on the actual collection day, marked them and then... placed them where? Back within the boundary of your property (although they had no evidence they were yours) or abandoned them on the public highway until you discovered them 4 days later.

Did you admit they were yours when you telephoned?

Or did you simply discover several black bags of 'unknown' origin (after all they could belong to anyone - that had been placed on your property and a related letter to the occupier from the council?

Although they put the 'Littering FPN Notice' through your letter box, it seems clear they have no other evidence linking the bags to your house - other than the fact that you found 'some' marked and taped black bags outside your property and a card inside your door - unless you admitted they were definitely yours.

Anybody could have left those black bags outside your house. People dump rubbish/fly tip everywhere

Which council is this? So I can avoid moving into the realm of the Stasi.

Have you gone through all stages of the council's complaints procedure? If not, do so. If you've exhausted that then go to the local government ombudsman. Ask that legal action is suspended while you follow the complaints process.

Keep letters strictly factual. Ask for what policy they are following when they have done xyz etc. If you have a chronology of phone calls and correspondence then use that.

Rubbish left in bags on pavement can be considered fly tipping and local authorities do have the power to search rubbish to identity to whom it belongs.

Court action will be taken on the basis of a point of law. Not for spite. Although it can feel like that way.

in this instance where she is a 'first possible offender' e.g she has not done this every week then it sounds to me like a complete and utter waste of the tax payers money.
I take it that your neighbours who accidently put the black bags out are also being taken along this route as well.....

Those were menacing words from the council - I am horrified for you.
Sounds like 'extortion by menaces' to me.
And nothing would have happened if you just ignored it and not phoned?
I'm disgusted!

Complain to appropriate ' bodies' and Good Luck.

This sounds very bizarre. What had happened to the black bags the other neighbours had put out? Do you not have wheely bins? Are they accusing you of flytipping? We're the bags on the pavement?

Rubbish in bags on the pavement would likely be considered fly tipping.

thanks for the responses. Some answers:
the bags were left on the pavement inches from the property boundary.
I assume any neighbours had the opportunity to realise their mistake and bring their bags back inside in time to avoid the bin task force. As I don't live there, I only became aware the bags remained days later.
The bags were left on the pavement by whoever searched them.
there are several helpful calls made to a call centre where no admission of responsibility is made. these calls are recorded.
There was a telephone conversation with an officer (mobile call, driving, handsfree, poor reception, not recorded ) where the officer and I claim different recollections of whether an admission of responsibility were made.
I don't know what was found in the bags. unlikely that it could have related to me, but possible that it related to the property.

update: two men just drove their car onto my driveway (at my home address, not the property where the 'offence' took place) and knocked on my door. I didn't open it but spoke through it asking them to identify themselves. They said they were there to deliver a letter from the council and I asked them to put it in the postbox. They have now gone.

The letter is addressed correctly but my name has been mispelled. The envelope is marked confidential. Do I put it back in the post unopened with 'not at this address'?

Where do I stand legally?

But it is your address & you did put the rubbish out! Legally, telling lies is never a good idea - ask Chis Hulme!!!

Best thing is to open it & respond to the contents inside it.

What does it say?

This does sound like a ludicrous waste of tax payers' money - not to mention bullying of you. Councils don't like adverse comment in the media. When I had a battle with the council over school admissions, the fact that I politely emailed every man and his dog meant that they were keen to resolve the problem. Depending on what the letter says, you may wish to consider that as an option.

Have you used the complaints procedure? If you go down that route then you can go to the LGO if you are dissatisfied. That is the way of dealing with this sort of issue. It is not bullying if the OP did in fact leave rubbish in bags in the street. This is considered fly tipping. To then fanny about on some sort of perceived crusade and not deal with the problem either via the complaints process or by paying the fine costs money.

Should it go to court the authority can likely add the changes to the amount due.