Seeing 1 year old daughter alone

[LandysOffRoad]

My ex and I have a daughter, who has just turned 1. I lost contact for a month at 2 months old due to changing jobs and moving house, but since 3 months old I have seen her at least once a week for 2-3 hours a visit, and paid maintenance My ex has never let me take her out alone, or be in the room alone with her. I have always been a loving dad to her, but my ex insists this is so our daughter "won't get scared being away from her".

Whenever I ask when I can have her alone, she says "once she is ready." but won't give any indication of when this is, and as she never leaves our daughter with anyone, she understandably cries if she leaves the room. My ex insists she won't calm down without her, and isn't willing to try this. Up until now I haven't pushed the point, due to breastfeeding meaning I couldn't have had long with her anyway, but now it seems like she's just going to drag it on and on. (she is also still breastfeeding even though our daughter is over 1.)

If I take this to court, would her reasons mean I still only have supervised access?
She says:

1. Our daughter doesn't know me well enough and will be scared (I see her once-twice a week, I do all the travelling-about 30 minutes each way, and she won't let me take her out unless ex is with us. Daughter will happily smile/play with me, though she is quite shy, but this is with everyone not just me.)

1. That I don't pay enough attention to her and she might end up hurting herself. (This is not true)

1. That I can't calm my daughter down on my own, (She has never let me try this, as if she cries longer than about 2 minutes she takes her off me and does it herself.)

And also how much/how long is an average court case of this sort?
Thank you in advance.

I could have been your ex, some 7 years ago.

My ex used to go off whinging to others about how I wouldn't trust our ds alone with him. I just didn't trust my ex and it sounds like your ex doesn't trust you - with the most precious person in her life, no less. colditz describes perfectly how I felt at the time.

All that mattered to me was protecting my baby, and then on top of that my ex threatened to take me to court. That was extra pressure as a single parent that I really didn't need. And it only proved to me even more that he was not to be trusted.

Anyway, in my case, in turns out my instincts were correct as he buggered off when ds was 2 because "I was too controlling" apparently and we haven't seen him since.

While we all know of the importance of the mother to a newborn baby, we sometimes think that being close to mother at all times is not so important to an older baby. If your ex, as you say. never leaves the child with anyone, then I guess that gives her very good grounds for not leaving her alone with you. Of course, it is very hard for you to see your child on her terms only and not to be able to do things during your time with your child.

Most people are leaving babies of this age with others from time to time or returning to work and most are no longer breastfeeding but for the child's benefit, not being separated from her mother and continuing breastfeeding has only positive outcomes. If your daughter is still breastfed on demand, than this provides much more than just nutrition and is a big thing for both of them to break. Your daughter will form bonds with you and will want to spend time with you if she continues to grow used to you in a gentle and stress free way.

I guess the right time for you to be alone with your daughter is when your ex is ready to leave her, this may be when she starts nursery. If your ex decides in the meantime to leave your daughter with her mother, her friend, a childminder etc, then you should be insisting on time alone with you.

Try reading Carlos Gonzalez - Kiss me! - How to raise your children with love. Research the needs of children to form strong bonds with one main carer, this is a very important process. Your time will come although I can only imagine how hard it is to wait.

Can I also point out that you have have started a thread to ask, not "how can I get to know my baby?" But "how can I make my baby's mother give me my own way regardless of the impact it will have on my baby?"

Which is telling.

I agree with cold it's. you actually sound thoroughly unpleasant. Much like my ex actually. You say she's not a baby. My own ds is 11 months old and still breast fed. This year has gone shockingly fast. Your daughter may not look like a newborn, she's probably up and walking. To you, she's a child. Your ex's feet probably haven't touched the ground this year. She's probably still up several times a night for hours at a time. Your daughter is a baby. She has a strong attachment to your ex, for which you should be grateful and recognising the hard work it takes to raise a baby every single day. Instead you think she has it easy on benefits . Your ex will be doing everything she can to not make your daughter distressed and I for one applaud that. You have no right to expect her to travel 2 hours to visit someone she doesn't even know. Overnight visits and longer periods of contact will come in time. But only when your dd is at an appropriate age. Tbh, with a breast fed child at prime separation anxiety age, you'd be begging to hand her back anyway. Stop thinking your ex is standing in your way for daring to breast feed her baby. She is trying to do right by her, not put up barriers to contact fgs.

When your child starts asking then that will definitely be old enough for visits alone. My ex didn't see dc3 until he was 1 year old & only sees him once a week now. They do not have a strong bond in the way he has with our dds. As a mother i find it hard to think anything comes first before my kids & would drive 2 hours EVERY day in order to see them.

Court should be the last resort & i really think you need to visit more often then maybe say on Saturday I would like to push x's prams to the shops,

If you want to go to court then why are you asking for advice? I think it will end badly for your relationship with your child.

She is bringing up our baby as she thinks best, with no regard for my input.

But really, if you only see your child once or twice a week for a few hours how valid will your input seem to her? The fact that you helped create her is pretty immaterial to her welfare now.

I do wish you the best but I thnk you would do better to really listen to the good advice you have had on this thread and hold off on court action.

I think a lot of these posts are very hostile. The information we have is limited, and it is perfectly possible for mothers - for a variety of reasons - to want to 'possess' their babies, and for the babies not to have a relation with their fathers - other than for the fathers to provide financial support. They may not be thinking about the benefits to the baby of growing up, right from the start, knowing that it is valued by both parents. (Clearly when there has been domestic violence and/or other abusive behaviour, there will be very sound reasons for mothers being concerned about contact, or wanting this not to happen.)

In the poster's situation I would be starting to consider seeking an appointment with a solicitor who was a member of the Childrens Panel. (There will be a list on the Association of Lawyers for Children website.) But I think it would be a good starting point to say to the ex, 'Look I really want us to make clear plans about my starting to spend regular short periods of time on my own with our child. If you don't feel ready to do this, I may have to go and take advice from a solicitor who is an expert on these matters. But I would much rather that we could work this out between ourselves.'

Thank you Frau. There has been no violence or abuse.
I will have a look on that website.
From what another poster said about it being common for mums to stop contact during court case, would it maybe make more sense to not tell her until things are more imminent?

Yes, don't tell her so that you make her feel ambushed, lied to and defensive

Off to hide this now.

Oh yes that will really help....not.

You need to work on seeing your dd more oftrn and building a good relationship with her mum so she feels she can trust you....so starting court proceedings and not telling would help that...not.

You will have to serve court papers on her, before a 1st court date, which could be anything up to 8 weeks later depending what area you are in.

Do you think that if she finds out about court by receiving court papers through her letterbox that you will be welcome to come and sit in her house and play with the baby?

Based on experience, I would guess not.

Id suggest writing to her, and say that you would like to develop your relationship with your daughter. That you would like to increase your visit to 2/3 times per week for 2 hours per time. That you would like to take responsibility for feeding, changing, entertaining your daughter during that time, and that you hope this will increase the bond your daughter has with you reducing the separation anxiety she currently suffers. That you would like you ex to help with this process by supporting you in increasing your alone time with your daughter. For example popping into another room to get something, and saying to daughter stay with daddy ill be right back. She will be literally a minute and hopefully back before your daughter gets distressed. This can be increased in time, and once your daughter is OK with your ex leaving you could move to taking her out for a brief walk in her pushchair etc, and then gradually move to having her away from home and increasing in the time.

This was what CAFCASS recommended in a friends case - unfortunately by the time they recommended it mum was no longer willing to have dad in her house due to the whole combative court process and it ended up in a contact center once per fortnight, where half the time dad doesn't get to see his son as the separation anxiety is so big, and the staff wont drag him off mum (20 months) to pass to dad.

Completely agree with Colditz. Based on what you have said here that you cannot see her every week 2 x, that you are busy, that you have shopping to do, that you need to see other people and so are too busy to see your own daughter. Are you for real? Yet you expect mum to hand her over to you? Get real. I wouldn;t. No way.

Now i am all for fathers playing an active role in their childrens lives. I despise women (and men) who use their children as pawns and possessions to hurt the other parent. It is possible that mum is doing this. But it is also possible that she feels she cannot trust you and her daughter will be scared because YOU have not put in the time or effort to get to know your daugher because you are 'too busy'. My own daughter is nearly 5 and still quite clingy to me and her dad finds it difficult to comfort her and we are married and she is at school! I found it incredibly difficult to leave my children with family members and even their own dad when they were little even though i knew they would be fine.

You need to take the good advice given on here - do all you can to show that you can be a good father, that you put your daughter above all else, be consistent and show up every week on time. Do not give ultimatums to mum or pressure her to hand her over. Keep encouraging mum to go into different room at first, then maybe a quick walk to the shops and help her overcome her anxiety at leaving her daughter. Keep reassuring her that you are a permanent, reliable fixture and prove that with your actions.

If after doing all of this over a year or so mum still wont allow it then maybe a more legal route is a valid option, having exhausted all others. But i think you are being selfish in your attitude at the moment.

For a child of your daughter's age the rule is `little and often'. In an ideal world it'd be for an hour or so every day. But it's not an ideal world.

As your daughter is being breastfed you need to bear that in mind. There is nothing to stop your daughter being alone with you for an hour at a time...and then two...and then three - and onwards.

Unbelievable as it may seem the vast majority of children spend time in the care of their father (with mother elsewhere), coming through without major injuries or psychological damage. The fact you are not with your ex does not change this. A father is as able to care for his children as much as their mother.

What you do need to bear in mind is the gradual increase in contact - and this schedule is something that you should discuss and agree with your ex. Face to face ideally. Via mediation if you need help. And only court if there is absolutely no chance of anything else working.

Alarm bells ring in my head when I see the phrase when she is ready'. Which unfortunately means When I say she is ready'. If you're a year down the line and she's still not ready' you have no recourse. If worst comes to the worst and it ends up in court you can guarantee the first thing you will be told is If you weren't happy with this level of contact why did you take a year to take any action?' and you'll be hit with the strong `status quo' argument.

I seriously suggest you work with your daughter's mother to agree a schedule of increasing contact. One thing I would advise would be to join Families Need Fathers. We deal with this situation all the time. You'll learn the best way to be an effective parent to your daughter even though you are separated from her mother.

Ah sorry. I think I got a bit stroppy there. But we're trying to advise and all you caqn do is go on about court and legally this and that.

it's very frustrating.

Court is a last resort. Anyone who goes to court without trying every other option first is likely to wish they had - Mums and Dads.

Outside, I didn't report it so no idea what you said, so no worries.

I understand that ideally we would agree between ourselves, and I appreciate the advice as there is some ideas and ways of wording things that will be helpful.
There just seems to be a general feeling that I have no say in anything to do with her. I know ideally I would be seeing her 2-3 times a week, or every day, but it's not possible. And I know she should come before everything but I put her first where ever I can while still trying to make time for the rest of my family and repairing my home (and things like shopping, washing, ironing, cooking, doctors so on still need doing unfortunately). I also don't think it is advisable for me to cut off all contact with close friends, as just like mums need support, dads do too.

The point I was making before as to me not putting seeing daughter above these things while ex is, is that she isn't seeing our daughter and not doing any of these things, she is just doing all these things while with our daughter, which I would happily do, but am unable to with the current contact, and so this does impact on the amount of contact time available unfortunately.

This is the problem I am in, I realistically cannot manage the 2 days every as suggested, and therefore it is 2 days every other week instead.
This is therefore the reason I keep mentioning court, as there seems to be no other way of progressing. She pointblank will not even leave the room, there is no point for me to aim to for this to be allowed, there is no reaction from daughter that will mean this is allowed, and there has been no reason given for this other than her not being ready. This therefore seems to be able to drag on and on with no solution she will agree to.

This is why court seems to be the best option now. Like lostdad said, the courts reaction would be "why did you take a year to come if you weren't happy". Currently it is because I believed at 1 year she would be stopping breastfeeding, and was under the impression this was the only reason for her staying with mum 24/7. Past this point I have no reason for taking any longer.

Also, if by going to court, we end up in a contact center and have to have a period of time supervised, the earlier this begins the quicker I can begin being a proper dad to her.

While I understand that I don't have as much time as a lot of dads, I don't think this would be viewed the same if I was a mum who's child was residing with the dad. There is no concerns over violence, ability to care, consistency since the early months, or time keeping/comunication between us. There is no reason for me not to be alone with her other than her mums wishes. Until what age does a mums wishes over ride a childs right to contact?

This link - and the forum which it is part of - might be useful

www.dad.info/dad-talk-forum/legal-eagle/10062-contact-order-c100-guide

I also don't think it is advisable for me to cut off all contact with close friends, as just like mums need support, dads do too.

What you're saying here is that your social life comes before your daughter. Nothing to do with the 'support' you need. I too am bowing out now.

Your DD may be breastfed, but it is unlikely that she is having more than a couple of feeds a day, so this is quite a spurious argument from your Ex as you could easily take your DD out for a few hours between those feeds. Your DD will cry when separated from your Ex, just like many children left with grandparents, nurseries etc, but the crying tends to stop within a few minutes for most children and become less each time, though the parent leaving may not know this as they just see the tearful child.

I think you are being perfectly reasonable in wanting some unsupervised time (assuming you are being truthful in your other details). You want to establish what will become "normal" for your family set up and build a better relationship with your DD by doing normal dad stuff with her like taking her to see her relatives on your side, going to the supermarket and taking her to the park. Some of the best "quality time" is in doing ordinary daily activity, like chatting to your child while they face you in a supermarket trolley. There is nothing unreasonable about wanting time with your DD and I think you should pursue it. You do need to follow the least confrontational options first (so things like mediation). Your ex sounds controlling and manipulative, though I am sure she has the best interests of her DD at heart.

OK, one last post. And with the disclaimer that I may well be projecting here. Breathe, there is nothing to suggest the mother is being manipulative. I am still bfing an 11 month old. He is under the weather and teething and has fed more times today than I can even count. The same will apply through the night. This is made more so because he actually had contact with his father this weekend- whenever he returns from being with his dad it makes him super clingy for a good few days afterwards, so that little break you think you're giving the mother may actually make things harder for her and your dd in the short term. It's not just about nutrition, it's also about comfort, something people seem to misunderstand about breastfeeding. Do I wish he fed less? O yes. But he doesn't so I have no real choice. I actually had to get a breastfeeding consultant to spell out to my ex just why he couldn't take ds whenever he wanted. The mother will also be at risk from mastitis if the baby is kept away for too long (again, based on my experience. I can't express for toffee). I really do think you need to accept that the breastfeeding isn't being used as a barrier here, though you seem to resent it.

MN044 - would your child be unable to go to the park for 30 mins with his dad? The OP is not even able to do this with his DD. The OP's Ex is being manipulative by using some circumstances (e.g. BF) to prevent him from spending any time alone with his DD.

Breast feeding is not being used to spite you, it is being used to nourish and comfort your daughter, and you are not able to lactate, therefore she needs those breasts.

The fact that those breasts are attached to your ex is not your daughter's problem. She needs access to them.

That is why you cannot take her away. You cannot comfort her because you have shown relatively little interest inner, and furthermore, you don't seem to understand her developmental needs. I would be hesitant about leaving the room too, in your exes shoes, and like I said, my children go to their dad one or two nights a week.

Children need fathers, yes, they absolutely do, but NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF THEIR HAPPINESS AND SAFETY.