Seeing 1 year old daughter alone

[LandysOffRoad]

My ex and I have a daughter, who has just turned 1. I lost contact for a month at 2 months old due to changing jobs and moving house, but since 3 months old I have seen her at least once a week for 2-3 hours a visit, and paid maintenance My ex has never let me take her out alone, or be in the room alone with her. I have always been a loving dad to her, but my ex insists this is so our daughter "won't get scared being away from her".

Whenever I ask when I can have her alone, she says "once she is ready." but won't give any indication of when this is, and as she never leaves our daughter with anyone, she understandably cries if she leaves the room. My ex insists she won't calm down without her, and isn't willing to try this. Up until now I haven't pushed the point, due to breastfeeding meaning I couldn't have had long with her anyway, but now it seems like she's just going to drag it on and on. (she is also still breastfeeding even though our daughter is over 1.)

If I take this to court, would her reasons mean I still only have supervised access?
She says:

1. Our daughter doesn't know me well enough and will be scared (I see her once-twice a week, I do all the travelling-about 30 minutes each way, and she won't let me take her out unless ex is with us. Daughter will happily smile/play with me, though she is quite shy, but this is with everyone not just me.)
   

1. That I don't pay enough attention to her and she might end up hurting herself. (This is not true)
   

1. That I can't calm my daughter down on my own, (She has never let me try this, as if she cries longer than about 2 minutes she takes her off me and does it herself.)
   

And also how much/how long is an average court case of this sort?
Thank you in advance.

[balia]

I don't know how many times the OP has to say that his ex will not allow him to be a more hands-on Dad. And how many of the people who are being so harsh have had to be in an environment when their every moment with their child is supervised?

OP, I'm sure you are intelligent enough (and actually know the people involved) to assess the situation accurately. At this point I would have said it is not remotely unreasonable to suggest mediation to your ex to try and get some of the issues resolved in a supportive atmosphere.

You must feel deeply frustrated about not being able to form a real bond with your DD, but be patient if you can. If your ex is open to a child-centred forward plan, then great. If she isn't then court has to be an option for you because children do have a right to relationships with both their parents.

It may take some time. You should get more informed about the process. Here fnf would be a good place to start. To put it in context, DH decided to take the court route when DSS was about 18 months old. Despite enormous opposition from his ex, he very quickly got contact in a contact centre that progressed to unsupervised contact within 6 months. It takes about 8 weeks to get a first hearing, then a few months to get a Cafcass report.

However, DH had been denied any contact with DSS and he knew that no amount of waiting and trying to be nice was going to work. 10 years on, DSS has a fantastic relationship with his Dad. We recently went back to court for holiday contact, and DSS was interviewed by Cafcass and said that on a scale of happiness of 1-10, more contact would make him '10 happy'.

Only you can make the decision whether being supportive and not pushing for reasonable contact with your child will, in the long term, result in a better Dad/daughter relationship than taking court action.

[Amateurish]

I think lots of posters are being very harsh, and you certainly have my sympathies. You still appear to have a reasonable relationship with your ex, and that's worth hanging on to.

I definitely do not recommend court action. It should only be a last resort, and you are not there yet. It will almost certainly ruin your relationship with your ex.

My practical advice would be for you and your ex to agree a plan to move towards unsupervised access in the future. She needs to commit to definitive reasonable timescales.

You need to build up your relationship with your daughter, so that your ex gains confidence in your abilities to look after her. I understand this is very difficult if your ex is always watching and ready to swoop in if there's a problem.

You could start by asking your ex to be less hands-on when you are around. So that she's still in the room, but will let you deal with issues when they arrive. This includes letting you calm your daughter down, even if it takes a while. You should also start taking charge of practical tasks - nappies, bath, clothes, whatever.

You also need to build up your time spent with your DD - on all of your days off.

Then you can start to have 5-10 minutes on your own, and build up from there.

[StrugglingBadly]

OP there has been a lot of suggestions here for things that you can do to improve the nature of your relationship with your DD, without the need to go to court. I'm another who doesn't 'buy' the notion that your life is so busy that you cannot increase the amount of time/frequency you see your DD. You need to seriously look at how you organise your life to enable you to increase the contact you have at the moment. And if you really want to play a more significant role in your DD's life, you will need to change things as they stand at the moment.

As has been said, you can internet shop - deliveries can still come to your home very late at night so perfectly possible to arrange that for after your contact with your DD. So there is one extra slot per week you could manage with your DD. Washing/ironing? Really? You can't start that after you see your DD for 2 hours another evening after work? My DD goes to bed at 8pm, sometimes half past or 9 if it's a late night. I still have to sort washing after she's in bed, and usually do ironing in the morning before we get ready. Or, I'll iron the lot in one go at the weekend, after she's in bed so again, it starts at about half 8/9pm. Doctors appointments - how often does that happen to interfere with your weekly life to be something that you need to factor into a contact schedule with your DD?

I do actually feel for you, as I know it must be frustrating to not be able to do more with/for your DD, but the crux here is, it's in your hands to do something about that if you are genuinely committed to improving the relationship with your DD, as opposed to taking some of the perceived control your ex has in this situation. The reality here is, your ex is your DD's sole carer, and has total responsibility for everything your DD needs and wants. She has that role in your DD's life because you have been complicit in allowing that to develop by virtue of your apparent 'busy life' and going awol for a month. You need to realise that you had choices here, and if your aim was to play a more significant role in your DD's life, you made the wrong choices. It's not a lost cause though, and you have choices now that can help to turn things around. Your 1st priority has to be that you increase how often you see your DD every week, and you have it in your hands to do that. And yes, that does mean putting spending extra time with your DD above spending that with friends/family. If you make the choice now, that you are still too busy to fit more time into your week to see your DD, and initiate the court process, I have to say I'm not optomistic that your relationship with your DD will improve in the way you want, or to the timescale you want either.

You could approach this by asking your ex to talk, explain that you would like to progress to time alone but understand the issues with separation anxiety. In order to address that, you think it would be better if you spent more frequent time with your DD, and propose extra nights/days that you can fit in (after going through your week as above, organising all these 'busy' tasks better so you have some more free time) and ask her to agree to a period of time where this can help build up towards you having time alone. Maybe suggest she moves away, out of your DD's view but remain in the same room, so she can see how at ease your DD is with you, as you build up that contact. Your role here is to keep your DD occupied, keep her focus on you and what you are doing (playing a game she likes, with her favourite toys etc) and demonstrate that you can keep her happy and content even if her mum is not within her view. The key to keeping a child who has separation anxiety calm (in my experience, albeit my DD wasn't too bad) is to distract them. You need to learn ways to do that, so it lets your ex see that you can cope, and when your DD shows signs of getting upset, you recognise them, and are able to react in a way that heads off the tears, or manage the tears so that the don't last too long. It's not easy! And you also need to understand that when your DD cries with that separation anxiety, that does have a physical effect on your ex too, which is probably why she cannot bear to let her DD cry for long if she starts when you are with her. It is hard to describe but I can still remember how my DD's distress made me incredibly anxious so please bear that in mind when you are getting frustrated with your ex and her unwillingness to let you try and comfort your DD.

I hope you take on board the many suggestions and really think about what you can do to improve things, without the need or risk of going to court to change things. Ultimately your choice, but I hope you can improve things without the need for court.

[janey223]

I really don't see how you can't find an hour or two on your second day off. You HAVE to fit your daughter around your life. Nobody is suggesting you have nothing else to do but if you want to build a relationship with her you need to organise your time better. 2 hours on 2 days per week is nothing - you have another bloody 22 hours of the day to do what you have to, it is not impossible.

I fit in housework, preparing the next days lunch, DIY, showering, friends visiting, paperwork etc into the few hours after bedtime. Do your shopping and DIY when you get home from work, do Internet shopping, have your appointments before or after your visits, same with seeing friends or family. How good a social life do you think your ex has? I'm a single parent and believe me it barely bloody exists - so yours shouldn't take bloody priority.

Consider moving closer to your daughter, then you can pop in and see her before or after work.

I think your ex has issues not even leaving the room without her but court is not going to help this. I have a 14 month old - I can't move without him being at my feet. The only person he will happily stay with is Papa but this was built up with him taking him walks (he's anybody's friend at the park, who cares where mummy is there's swings!).

Go for walks and you push the pram, take LO to the park and you look after her. You need to be consistent and show your ex you're competent. She obviously doesn't trust you but it doesn't sound like she trusts anyone else with her either.

If she doesn't agree (if you move up your visits to every week) to compromise to you being the main caregiver when you're there and popping out the room to transition her to getting used to being alone with you then go to mediation.

[breatheslowly]

In the circumstances it is very difficult to tell if the baby is actually clingy as there is no opportunity to take the child out into an interesting place which might distract her enough to overcome the clinginess for a short period of time. If the OP has a go at taking her out for 30 min and it is 30 min of wailing for mummy then he probably would choose to retreat and go back to the previous arrangement for a few months and then try again. But without ever letting him try it there is no way for him to be able to tell if it would work.

[colditz]

But if she's being particularly clingy to her mum right now, why put her through that for the sake of getting your own way? Why not just wait until, developmentally, she will get some benefit from it?

[breatheslowly]

I really think he knows enough for his DD to be left with him while her mother goes to the loo or for a short trip to the park. You don't need to have read about child development to be able to care for a child for short periods of time. This is not a child he barely knows, a few hours a week and a short discussion with the mother about what she might need in the next 30 minutes would be sufficient for a trip to the park. Most one year olds do spend at least a little time apart from their primary carer, whether with their grandparents or another family member.

[colditz]

Lost dad, this poster isn't you. He has never lived with this child, and by choice, didn't see her for a month. He relocated himself. He has never spent longer that a few hours a week with her, and her mother, the person who does EVERYTHING, is concerned that he doesn't know her well enough to keep her safe. To be fair, he didn't know that one year olds often still wake at night to feed, that a breast fed child may breast feed very frequently for comfort, or that she is at the peak age for separation anxiety.

Now, he has the Internet at his fingertips, and he could have found this out at any time ... But he has had to be told by strangers on a forum about the normal development of his own daughter. Does that genuinely scream "desperately wants to be involved father" to you? Does it tell you he is perfectly safe to be left in charge or a child he barely knows? Not only does he not know his child, he doesn't know enough about children her age. I don't blame her mother for doubting his ability, and if I was her, more contact would have to be had, and more interest would have to be shown before he left the house with the baby.

[lostdad]

If Mum is breastfeeding, she's breastfeeding. You're going to get nowhere suggesting that she's doing it to be obstructive (even if she is). No one - not even a court is going to entertain anything that interferes with breastfeeding if she says she is doing this.

Of course, there are ways around it - and as a child grows older any argument to restrict contact because of it grows weaker.

As I said before - contact should be little and often at this stage, although I would expect you to be unsupervised at this stage. And to have more contact.

I'm not going to hit you over the head about whether you're doing enough or not - because I know that a lot of separated parents (mainly dads) find themselves having to work full time to pay the bills and pay maintenance and do things like maintain a car (to actually get to contact) and a house that is up to scratch and has enough rooms to enable your child to enjoy a reasonable home life with you.

It is hard. `Normal' parenting is hard enough - but this is hard (I speak as someone who has personal experience of this involving the long and dragged out court case, the move 300 miles across the country when my son was relocated without warning, severe financial hardship while I tried to juggle meaningful contact and paying the bills, loss of a business, etc. etc.)

But it can be done. You kind of signed up for it when you became a parent...

[Viviennemary]

Well I must say I don't think your ex is being very fair about the access. Not allowing you any time whatsoever alone with your child. If it was me and the situation couldn't be solved between you then I would apply to the court for them to make a decision. If a child is absolutely never out of the sight of its mother then it is going to suffer from separation anxiety. Which isn't always a very good thing for a child.

[VelvetSpoon]

I have to say I think a lot of posts are being more than a little unfair to the OP.

For anyone who works FT, and has some form of commute I imagine it would be very difficult to see a young child during the week. Most DC I know around that age are in bed by 6.30 at the latest. It's also understandable that the OP has other jobs which he needs to get done at weekends - DIY for example which can't be done in the evenings. That's not to say it's more important than his daughter, but if jobs have to be done, time needs to be found somehow.

I do think the OP will never build any sort of bond with his DD if he never has unsupervised contact with her. Obviously that prospect is going to be scary for his Ex, BUT tbh I think that sort of contact/routine should have been established months ago, starting with an hour at first and building from there, so that by now he should be seeing her for a full day/overnight (as a single dad I know with a similar age DS does).

I do understand your reasoning OP, and thinking/hoping that as your DD got older, the breastfeeding argument used by your Ex might be less of an issue. As things stand, I think before kicking off the court side of things, it might be worth trying to have a discussion with your Ex, and seeing what you can negotiate. if she flat out refuses to make any concessions, then you may need to take a more formal route. Hopefully though, she will be open to some form of compromise.

[colditz]

Your contact schedule is shoddy and pathetic. Three times a fortnight is not enough to be considered a regular person in a baby's life. Seriously, my kids spend more time with a taxi driver, does that mean he has a fatherly bond with them? Lol.

Get your lazy backside round there at least every other day, and until you can commit to once every forty eight hours, you might just be ready to be a father rather than a visitor.

Shopping, washing, ironing, your friends, your family ... All this takes priority over visiting your daughter on a reasonable contact schedule? You Are Not Being A Parent, which is why her mother won't let you have a parental role.

[colditz]

Breast feeding is not being used to spite you, it is being used to nourish and comfort your daughter, and you are not able to lactate, therefore she needs those breasts.

The fact that those breasts are attached to your ex is not your daughter's problem. She needs access to them.

That is why you cannot take her away. You cannot comfort her because you have shown relatively little interest inner, and furthermore, you don't seem to understand her developmental needs. I would be hesitant about leaving the room too, in your exes shoes, and like I said, my children go to their dad one or two nights a week.

Children need fathers, yes, they absolutely do, but NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF THEIR HAPPINESS AND SAFETY.

[breatheslowly]

MN044 - would your child be unable to go to the park for 30 mins with his dad? The OP is not even able to do this with his DD. The OP's Ex is being manipulative by using some circumstances (e.g. BF) to prevent him from spending any time alone with his DD.

[MN044]

OK, one last post. And with the disclaimer that I may well be projecting here. Breathe, there is nothing to suggest the mother is being manipulative. I am still bfing an 11 month old. He is under the weather and teething and has fed more times today than I can even count. The same will apply through the night. This is made more so because he actually had contact with his father this weekend- whenever he returns from being with his dad it makes him super clingy for a good few days afterwards, so that little break you think you're giving the mother may actually make things harder for her and your dd in the short term. It's not just about nutrition, it's also about comfort, something people seem to misunderstand about breastfeeding. Do I wish he fed less? O yes. But he doesn't so I have no real choice. I actually had to get a breastfeeding consultant to spell out to my ex just why he couldn't take ds whenever he wanted. The mother will also be at risk from mastitis if the baby is kept away for too long (again, based on my experience. I can't express for toffee). I really do think you need to accept that the breastfeeding isn't being used as a barrier here, though you seem to resent it.

[breatheslowly]

Your DD may be breastfed, but it is unlikely that she is having more than a couple of feeds a day, so this is quite a spurious argument from your Ex as you could easily take your DD out for a few hours between those feeds. Your DD will cry when separated from your Ex, just like many children left with grandparents, nurseries etc, but the crying tends to stop within a few minutes for most children and become less each time, though the parent leaving may not know this as they just see the tearful child.

I think you are being perfectly reasonable in wanting some unsupervised time (assuming you are being truthful in your other details). You want to establish what will become "normal" for your family set up and build a better relationship with your DD by doing normal dad stuff with her like taking her to see her relatives on your side, going to the supermarket and taking her to the park. Some of the best "quality time" is in doing ordinary daily activity, like chatting to your child while they face you in a supermarket trolley. There is nothing unreasonable about wanting time with your DD and I think you should pursue it. You do need to follow the least confrontational options first (so things like mediation). Your ex sounds controlling and manipulative, though I am sure she has the best interests of her DD at heart.

[MN044]

I also don't think it is advisable for me to cut off all contact with close friends, as just like mums need support, dads do too.

What you're saying here is that your social life comes before your daughter. Nothing to do with the 'support' you need. I too am bowing out now.

[FrauMoose]

This link - and the forum which it is part of - might be useful

www.dad.info/dad-talk-forum/legal-eagle/10062-contact-order-c100-guide

[LandysOffRoad]

Outside, I didn't report it so no idea what you said, so no worries.

I understand that ideally we would agree between ourselves, and I appreciate the advice as there is some ideas and ways of wording things that will be helpful.
There just seems to be a general feeling that I have no say in anything to do with her. I know ideally I would be seeing her 2-3 times a week, or every day, but it's not possible. And I know she should come before everything but I put her first where ever I can while still trying to make time for the rest of my family and repairing my home (and things like shopping, washing, ironing, cooking, doctors so on still need doing unfortunately). I also don't think it is advisable for me to cut off all contact with close friends, as just like mums need support, dads do too.

The point I was making before as to me not putting seeing daughter above these things while ex is, is that she isn't seeing our daughter and not doing any of these things, she is just doing all these things while with our daughter, which I would happily do, but am unable to with the current contact, and so this does impact on the amount of contact time available unfortunately.

This is the problem I am in, I realistically cannot manage the 2 days every as suggested, and therefore it is 2 days every other week instead.
This is therefore the reason I keep mentioning court, as there seems to be no other way of progressing. She pointblank will not even leave the room, there is no point for me to aim to for this to be allowed, there is no reaction from daughter that will mean this is allowed, and there has been no reason given for this other than her not being ready. This therefore seems to be able to drag on and on with no solution she will agree to.

This is why court seems to be the best option now. Like lostdad said, the courts reaction would be "why did you take a year to come if you weren't happy". Currently it is because I believed at 1 year she would be stopping breastfeeding, and was under the impression this was the only reason for her staying with mum 24/7. Past this point I have no reason for taking any longer.

Also, if by going to court, we end up in a contact center and have to have a period of time supervised, the earlier this begins the quicker I can begin being a proper dad to her.

While I understand that I don't have as much time as a lot of dads, I don't think this would be viewed the same if I was a mum who's child was residing with the dad. There is no concerns over violence, ability to care, consistency since the early months, or time keeping/comunication between us. There is no reason for me not to be alone with her other than her mums wishes. Until what age does a mums wishes over ride a childs right to contact?

[lostdad]

Court is a last resort. Anyone who goes to court without trying every other option first is likely to wish they had - Mums and Dads.

[OutsideOverThere]

Ah sorry. I think I got a bit stroppy there. But we're trying to advise and all you caqn do is go on about court and legally this and that.

it's very frustrating.

[lostdad]

For a child of your daughter's age the rule is little and often'. In an ideal world it'd be for an hour or so every day. But it's not an ideal world.<br /> <br /> As your daughter is being breastfed you need to bear that in mind. There is nothing to stop your daughter being alone with you for an hour at a time...and then two...and then three - and onwards.<br /> <br /> Unbelievable as it may seem the vast majority of children spend time in the care of their father (with mother elsewhere), coming through without major injuries or psychological damage. <img loading="lazy" class="inline-flex mumsnet-emoji" alt="Grin" src="https://www.mumsnet.com/assets/images/mumsnet-emojis/base/grin.png"> <strong>The fact you are not with your ex does not change this.</strong> A father is as able to care for his children as much as their mother.<br /> <br /> What you do need to bear in mind is the gradual increase in contact - and this schedule is something that you should discuss and agree with your ex. Face to face ideally. Via mediation if you need help. And only court if there is absolutely no chance of anything else working.<br /> <br /> Alarm bells ring in my head when I see the phrase when she is ready'. Which unfortunately means When I say she is ready'. If you're a year down the line and she's still not ready' you have no recourse. If worst comes to the worst and it ends up in court you can guarantee the first thing you will be told is If you weren't happy with this level of contact why did you take a year to take any action?' and you'll be hit with the strong status quo' argument.

I seriously suggest you work with your daughter's mother to agree a schedule of increasing contact. One thing I would advise would be to join Families Need Fathers. We deal with this situation all the time. You'll learn the best way to be an effective parent to your daughter even though you are separated from her mother.

[toosoppyforwords]

Completely agree with Colditz. Based on what you have said here that you cannot see her every week 2 x, that you are busy, that you have shopping to do, that you need to see other people and so are too busy to see your own daughter. Are you for real? Yet you expect mum to hand her over to you? Get real. I wouldn;t. No way.

Now i am all for fathers playing an active role in their childrens lives. I despise women (and men) who use their children as pawns and possessions to hurt the other parent. It is possible that mum is doing this. But it is also possible that she feels she cannot trust you and her daughter will be scared because YOU have not put in the time or effort to get to know your daugher because you are 'too busy'. My own daughter is nearly 5 and still quite clingy to me and her dad finds it difficult to comfort her and we are married and she is at school! I found it incredibly difficult to leave my children with family members and even their own dad when they were little even though i knew they would be fine.

You need to take the good advice given on here - do all you can to show that you can be a good father, that you put your daughter above all else, be consistent and show up every week on time. Do not give ultimatums to mum or pressure her to hand her over. Keep encouraging mum to go into different room at first, then maybe a quick walk to the shops and help her overcome her anxiety at leaving her daughter. Keep reassuring her that you are a permanent, reliable fixture and prove that with your actions.

If after doing all of this over a year or so mum still wont allow it then maybe a more legal route is a valid option, having exhausted all others. But i think you are being selfish in your attitude at the moment.