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Legal matters

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Dispute over land/boundary

19 replies

Wereonourway · 02/03/2013 12:26

30 years ago my aunt purchased an end of terrace house. It had an extra strip of land to side of house, approx 8 feet wide. She chose to purchase house rather than the one next door due to this land.

It was fenced off and had been since it was built.
There was a bingo hall next door, her fencing was more or less touching the bingo ball.

She has never had any problems with the land, the bingo ball had changed hands twice and no one had ever approached her about the land, she had assumed it was hers and no one had ever disagreed.

The bingo ball is now being demolished by the owners who plan to sell the land with planning permission. The owners(who have owned ball for 12 yrs plus) are now insisting aunt gives them back their land and that they will be fencing up against their gable end.

They have sent in the big guns against her and she has until 25th march to dispute it. She doesn't have a lot of money but does not want to give up the land.

If she has had this land for 30 years without any dispute does she have a case??

Especially since the owners have not approached her before now. She has been warned that if she fights it and loses not only will she lose the land but that the owners of bingo ball have hired lawyers costing in excess of £250 per hour and she would obviously be liable for that too.

Bingo hall owners are stating she cannot prove she didn't build fence, she has photographs from 1982 showing fence and several people willing to confirm dance has been there for thirty years

OP posts:
binger · 02/03/2013 12:34

I'm sure here in Scotland that if you have had a piece of land for 5 years then it is deemed as yours (I was told this by a landscaper so don't know how much truth is in it). I think the best bed is to see the title deeds and check the land registry to see what land came with the house. Again, it may be different depending on where you live. I think I'd be seeing a solicitor asap.

binger · 02/03/2013 12:35

Don't know if this will help

www.landregistry.gov.uk

wonkylegs · 02/03/2013 12:44

Firstly check the 'title' of the land on Land Registry.
If this is not helpful then perhaps this website can explain the legal concepts
www.boundary-problems.co.uk/boundary-problems/legalconcepts.html

NotADragonOfSoup · 02/03/2013 12:51

If she has had this land for 30 years without any dispute does she have a case??

Reading the link posted by Wonkylegs, it seems that she doesn't. The registered landowner can apply to evict her from that land.

LindaMcCartneySausage · 02/03/2013 13:09

Is the property in England? I assume it is. Firstly, you need to get a copy of the registered title and filed plan for your aunt's property. It will show the legal boundary in red and what she owns according to the Land Registry. It will cost about £10 for both. Definitely worth buying. You will find it on the Land Registry website.

After that, it's fairly complex depending on use, fencing etc. Tell your aunt not to be intimidated though - the developers will want to frighten her into backing down. What evidence have they produced that they own the strip of land?

youknowmeandiknowyou · 02/03/2013 13:30

Your aunt needs to dispute on the grounds of adverse possession.

The law on this has recently been revised iirc and it depends if the land is registered or not.

www.landregistry.gov.uk/professional/guides/practice-guide-4

www.legalcentre.co.uk/property/guide/adverse-possession-of-land/

If she has been using the land for as long as that, and it was fenced off and the other parties didn't have access to it and she treated the land as if it was hers to the exclusion of others then she may well have a case.

Wereonourway · 02/03/2013 13:54

The deeds aren't clear apparently. It does show a gap between the end of their property and the start of the bingo hall but isn't clear on length/measurements.

I think the advice she has had is to go down adverse possession.

She can prove she has used it, there's been a shed there for years and she used to breed dogs using a shed/kennel which she has pics of too.

She is scared of losing and having a legal bill into tens of thousands but out of principal doesn't want to just give up. Same owners have had hall for years and not disputed it.

She is trying to contact builder of the houses but is t sure that will help.

She is seeking legal advice and has even pointed in the direction of a lawyer who specialises in these things who she is hoping will advise her whether its worth fighting.

She may have a stay of execution however as they have found bats in the hall(it's been unused for some years now) and apparently they cannot demolish it until bats have moved of their own accord

OP posts:
wonkylegs · 02/03/2013 15:53

Keep an eye on the bats - they might be her friend especially if they do not follow the letter of the law when dealing with them as the prosecution & fines can be huge which can make developments unviable (believe me I've had clients who had to deal with them and it's costs thousands and they haven't even done anything wrong just the monitoring side if things.)
They can only demolish at certain times and with special measures to make provision for the bats to come back. All of this must be documented through planning.

notapizzaeater · 02/03/2013 16:21

Has she got legal insurance with her house insurance ? They might be able to help.

digerd · 02/03/2013 16:46

Good for the bats. Hope the greedy people don't kill them to get their money.
I have read about Adverse Possession, and for some cases it is 12 years and others 20. It doesn't have to be registered before hand.
The letter she received is just nasty scare tactics, which shows they are desparate as know they won't have a chance, if it goes to court.

wonkylegs · 02/03/2013 17:41

If someone kills, captures or intentionally /recklessly harms a bat or disturbs, removes or blocks their roost it is a criminal offence. The fine can be £5000 per bat (roosts can have hundreds of bats) and up to 6mths in prison. You can amend their habit under licence but this is a lengthly process.
Any developer worth their salt knows this but some do try to get away with getting rid of bats illegally. It is important to keep an eye on known roosts and report suspicious activity.
TBH they are a pain in the bum logistically when found in your construction site but they are a species protected by law and it annoys me even more when I hear of the people who circumvent it. Sorry gone a bit off topic there.
Adverse possession may be difficult to prove and it's probably worth getting proper legal advice on whether or not to proceed.

Wereonourway · 02/03/2013 19:27

Thank you for your advice
Developers have put up 2 bat boxes today. Not sure what that means.
Company are unwilling to communicate uess through lawyers.
Others have said they will write to confirm land has always been like that but apparently they must be present if it goes to court.
My aunt has a heart of gold and its such a shame that she is being put through this

OP posts:
Wereonourway · 02/03/2013 19:30

If she has legal cover on her home insurance will it be covered if she loses?
Obviously I know there will be a limit money wise.
I advised her to contact insurers today as she wAsnt aware of whether she would be covered.

OP posts:
notapizzaeater · 02/03/2013 19:33

I think the insurers will only take it on if she has a better than 50% chance of winning - so a good barometer ! Iirc they pick up the tab even if she looses

digerd · 02/03/2013 21:19

More scare tactics from the neighbours. They think your aunt will not want to pay for lawyers or cannot afford it. They are extortionists.
Her buildings insurance will have free legal advice service, where she can enquire.
I did that about something my neighbour had done to my property without my permission. They do not work for your insurance co. but give free legal advice

digerd · 02/03/2013 21:24

Ps
And report the bat boxes being put in there to the appropriate people.

Anifrangapani · 06/03/2013 19:31

Bats will only delay the development until may. The bat boxes are for the survey required for planning.

elfycat · 06/03/2013 19:39

Check on the bat type and call in the experts. Some rarer bats are so protected that they might not be able to demolish their roosts even out of season. One of my friends got a real headache over bats in their house and nearly had to stop a build halfway through leaving her with a dismantled house (luckily they were eventually able to continue but it cost thousands).

dippymother · 07/03/2013 20:24

She needs to find out if the land is registered (and who it's registered to) or unregistered from the Land Registry. If unregistered she can apply for Possessory Title (applicable after 12 years). I recently applied for Possessory Title over a piece of unregistered land incorporated into my garden since 1993. Have now been awarded the land, even though Land Registry did make a site visit and send out Statutory Notices to my neighbours giving 20 days for them to make a claim. Deeds don't make it clear, you need a detailed map from Land Registry and it is they who will decide who is the rightful owner when enquiries are made and responded to.

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