future question about going on holiday when an absent parent has PR

[HopAndSkip]

I haven't got a holiday planned, but i was just wondering for the future.
If DC dad has PR but has no contact, no court order, or interest in DC, do i still have to go through the process of trying to get a response from him to give me permission to go abroad for a short holiday (eg. a week away)?

And what happens if/when he doesn't respond - is that taken as agreement, or will i have to pay to get a court order or something?
DC has the same surname as me, if that makes any difference.
Thank you for your time.

Unless there is a residence order in place you always need the consent of everyone with PR before taking a child out of the country. So yes, you do have to try and get his agreement to go on a holiday abroad.

If you can show that you have taken "all reasonable steps" to contact the father but he has not responded you can take your child abroad legally. However, some countries require evidence that you aren't breaking the law before they will allow you and your child to enter so you should check what, if anything, is required.

Thanks for the reply prh
What would class as "all reasonable steps"? (I only have his phone number, no address as he has moved.)
How would you go about checking what a certain country requires?

This is possibly naive but I've taken my children to loads of places without DH and no-one has ever challenged whether I have his permission or not. It's not obvious from passports what our current domestic situation is - we could be separated or divorced. Similarly my children have been abroad many times with other people (grandparents, aunts, school friends). In these cases I always write a letter giving permission but only in one case has it ever been asked for (and that was for DS2 re-entering the UK with my sister after going to France unchallenged). Therefore it feels to be unlikely that you are going to get challenged if you travel abroad.

There is no simple legal definition of "all reasonable steps" but you have to make an effort to get his consent. Just leaving a message on his answering machine (if he has one) is unlikely to be enough!

Some posters on here have had problems trying to take children abroad without evidence of consent from the other parent although many have not. To find out what a country needs I would contact their embassy in the UK. You may not be asked for anything when you get to the border but better safe!

I've taken my DD abroad on holiday several times without her dad flying with us and we've never been challenged - and she has different surname to me!

I wouldn't loose any sleep over it!

I wouldn't try and track down my abusive XP if we wanted to go abroad! He has had nothing to do with his children for nearly 4yrs. What we do is nothing to do with him.

Unless there is a residence order in your favour it's a criminal offence to take a child abroad without consent form all those with Parental Responsibility for the child or leave from the court. It isn't an offence if consent is unreasonably withheld or you have made all reasonable attempts to contact to contact those with PR to no avail - see s1 Child Abduction Act 1984.

Clearly going on the usual annual holiday for a couple of weeks isn't children abduction, but without the appropriate consent or permission from the court you leave yourself open to the hassle of last minute hearings, being stopped at ports when you leave the country or having your holiday disrupted by the authorities when you are abroad. Until there has been a hearing or investigation the courts or authorities may take action just in case there is a flight risk until don't know whether there is a genuine flight risk or not and may take action just in case. Increasingly immigration is some countries (eg Canada and Mexico) insist on written consent to admit a child when travelling alone with a parent.

Unfortunately the experiences of others may not apply in your particular case. Just because they have had no problems doesn't mean you won't be one of the unlucky ones who have their holiday ruined. Just before Christmas one mum had to attend court on the day she had tickets to travel because her ex applied to court for a Prohibited Steps Order to prevent her from taking the children abroad. The court decided there was no flight risk and she could go but by this time it was too late and the holiday was cancelled without a refund.

Agree with prh and STIDW. Most mothers travelling without the father don't have problems but sadly some do. In particular, it seems that Canada is extremely anal about requiring permission.

Canada is extremely anal about this. Years ago, myself and my dad (same surname) were questioned for a good hour by immigration about his intentions (we were going on a fortnight's ski holiday). It's because Canada is a fairly traditional place for fathers to abduct their children to.

Apparently they would have been much happier if we had had a letter from my mum. It seems strange, as that sort of thing is easily forged, and they declined the offer of us giving them my mum's phone number so that they could ring her.