Received a written compalint from a neighbour - so I have to reply?

[8amIsnt5am]

I've namechanged as details are 'outing'. Sorry it's long but I've tried to include all relevant details.

My DD2 is collected by our CM at 7.55 Mon- Fri. We live in a block of flats, with stairs to access it, so CM rings our buzzer, we take DD down to her. Short interchange and she is off. This takes between 5-10 minutes maximum. It involves some small discussion with CM, kisses and waves bye bye. It is short and we try to keep our voices down - but it is 8am in the morning.

CM can't come to our flat door as its up several flights of stairs and she has a buggy.

My neighbour works shifts. She has written to me claiming I am interfering with her right to peaceful enjoyment of her property, and the above interchange is excessively loud and long and wakes her around 8am, which is the "equivalent of 5am" for her. The noise is so incredibly loud (allegedly) that ear plugs don't work for her.

She claims that the above handover takes 30 minutes or even longer every morning between 7.30 am and 8.20 am and is very loud. This is completely inaccurate. It is 5 minutes most mornings, sometimes 10 maximum if I have forgotten something and have to run back upstairs, and it is ALWAYS at 7.55/8am. It is talking voices only. There are many children in the neighbourhood and a school a short distance away. It seems she is attributing any noise she hears to me & my DD.

She claims sound echos "as I will know from the days when my DP used to go downstairs and shout at the kids"!! Seriously WTF? This has never happened - There was a family with a garden backing onto our flats (right under her window) who had small children and she must be thinking of them. Nothing to do with us.

She claims a right "to peaceful enjoyment" of her property - HR Act language. The HR is re peaceful enjoyment from govt interference is it not? It is not a right to have complete quiet in your flat at all times. I should also add here, for context, that the flats are on a main road & bus route in central London - well used by emergency services vehicles at all times with sirens etc. Its a noisy place day & night.

Even if my children were excessively loud (which they aren't), according to the CAB it is pretty much unactionable.

Surely I am allowed to converse with another person, in a normal voice, outside a block of flats between 7.55 & 8.05 am? The shift patterns of my neighbour really aren't my concern - what if I had 5 neighbours working different shifts? Would it be unreasonable to talk to another person outside my flat at any time of the day lest it's "5am" in someone else's world?

This neighbour and I have history from many years ago before she lived in this flat. I think she is a nasty person and do not want to have anything to do with her at all.

I will of course further attempt to keep our voices down during the handover, and will tell CM that we must talk about anything we need to on the phone later, rather than at collection time, but I really don't think that we are doing anything wrong at all. However I do not want to engage with her on any level or reply to her ridiculous & wildly inaccurate email.

Apparently she is also complaining to all the other residents in the flats about us - I get on really well with the neighbours I know (several) and no one has ever said anything to me about noise. I apologised to our immediate neighbour re noise one day recently when DD1 was having the mightiest tantrum & he knocked on our door (about another matter) - he hadn't heard a thing!

Clearly I think her complaint is inaccurate and unjustified. She should invest in some of those wax ear plugs if she has an issue with noise and needs to sleep during the day, as shift workers the world over do (my parents were shift workers so I am well aware of the stresses they are re sleep under having grown up with it).

Do you think I have a legal duty to reply to her email?

You are all very wonderful - thank you

I'd really not bother then. She sounds incredibly unreasonable. If she is stupid enough to contact environmental health, they will look at whether the 'noise' is excessive or malicious. There's nothing wrong with saying goodbye to your child, what planet is this woman on?

The best thing to do is be quieter in the mornings.
yes this is what we will do, within reason. It really isn't as if we are loud, and I refuse to live my life tippy-toeying around an unreasonable person, but yes I have spoken with DP & will with CM and we will all endeavour to be quieter.

I will write a rebuttal, for my own records, as you suggest Brycie cheers

Ignore her, it'll drive her nuts. If she happens to mention it, just look blank and walk on. She sounds like a total shit stirrer and there's no point in engaging with people like that. A single word from you will give her the signal that she'll get satisfaction if she keeps harassing you.

I couldn't agree more Cailin

She's hacked off about being woken up, because she works shifts. But I think she is making YOU and your brief child handover the focus of her ire because she doesn't like you.

I do think you should answer the e-mail, to say your handovers are short, quiet 5 min affairs that don't cover the full time period she is complaining about, and you make every effort to keep noise to a minimum, BUT it is a reasonable and necessary activity. Or something like that. Tone should be polite, but no apology is actually needed.

Other people's real lives and ordinary use of their homes cannot stop because she works shifts.

I wouldn't feed the troll. If she stops moaning about this, she's guaranteed to find something else. You're not in the wrong here, so I really would ignore her. Once you start engaging and changing the way you do things she'll think that she's won and that you're a soft touch for the next time she wants something. You'll end up walking on egg shells.

Yes I agree and would emphasise again, never at any point apologise unless it's a written "sorry YOU FEEL THIS WAY".

Ask the CM to keep a note of times/durations too, so it's not just you. Just in case. Agree she's a troll. People who do that vaguely legal sounding letter thing as a first resort rather than just talking to someone are just full of shit.

I have had this bird outside the bedroom window nearly all summer making a dreadful noise. It is irritating. It seems to have gone away to pastures new. I hate noise and I sympathise with people bothered by it. Can't you just keep the noise down and say goodbye to your DD inside the flat.

Wow she followed you across London! I can understand you not wanting to share the story but is there any chance what she is doing could be considered a deliberate stalkerish harassment? If she has done similar elsewhere?

Viv. She's already said the child minder can't get up the stairs.

Its seems clear to me that this is vindictive and personal anyway and nothing to actually do with the noise.

Actually I'd resist temptation to give her the times handover actually takes place, ^ because if this ever gets out of hand, the fact she's saying that's when she's being disturbed by you, would surely get it dismissed?

When you are being disturbed by a specific person you tend to know exactly when it is.

I've had 20 years of a controlling abusive neighbour (who wages disturbance campaigns) wanting to control my life and have someone 'under her' to have a campaign against to feel better about her own problems, and using allegations as a way of forcing contact between us. There is no original problem other than she decided my existence was an issue.

She blames me for everything, and when anything goes wrong in her life, from problems with her teens, to dustmen not emptying her bins, I know I'm in for it.

She's even phoned me while I was on holiday on the beach claiming I'd stolen her recycling boxes and demanding I give them back now, as she'd put them out that morning and they had gone!
I pointed out where I was, needless to say the claim had been modified by my return to I had taken them on X date before going away on holiday and she'd seen me doing it before leaving on X date. Huge notes to this effect had been taped on the doors for all to read about me, the thief. Later on another tenant mentioned to the landlord about being concerned about security because of a known thief.

Biggest mistake I made was trying to placate, communicate and be reasonable with an unreasonable person, it sent out a message that she could do this.
Very good luck, I know how miserable this stuff can be.

Oh, I definitely wouldn't give her the times, just keep a note of them and have the childminder do the same, and keep it close to your chest just in case she does get legal.

Sorry if someone's already cleared this bit up, but in your shoes I would be worried that it might look bad if you don't reply to her, from the council's point of view as she could say later that she tried to solve it with you but that you were uncooperative.

I would be tempted to reply, as others have suggested, sympathising with her lack of sleep, but politely pointing out that she must be mixing you up with someone else, on this occasion, and also for the noise she's remembering from before.

An alternative would be to get in there first with the council.

Ring them up, and tell them that someone has made a complaint to you, but that it's clear that they are mixing other people's noise up with yours. Explain that you are not keen on interacting with them as you think that they have a vendetta against you, and that you don't want any action taken yourself, but you just want a record made that you are aware of the issue and are being as considerate as possible. (I guess they might tell you you should reply to her though.)

what letter...? what email...? Never saw them what were they about then?

Don't feed the animals they will often come back for more feeding later...

I agree that probably no response is the best approach to infuriating her.

What you don't want is her to escalate it though. Could you start a bit of a PR drive with your other neighbours and get your side of things in first. "Good morning Mr Smith, how's your goldfish? Oh by the way I hope my childminder didn't disturb you when she came this morning." "Hi Mrs Patel - you will let me know if there's anything I can do to make sure my dcs don't distub you, wont you?"

The neighbours will be eating out of your hand and if Nasty Neighbour tries to take things further you'll have a line of nice neighbours ready to say that you naver make a sound.

Oh if your going to be a good neighbour - have them all round for coffee and cake when she is out - then you will have won them over I am always on the side of a neighbour who gives me cake

I would look at your blocks rules - mine is between 11pm and 7am. So if it was that I wouldn't even engage
I sometimes come home from work at odd hours (3,4am) but I turn the alarm off as quickly as possible, shut the door quietly etc and my neighbours always say they never hear me

She sounds like a nightmare and she is being ridiculous

8am is 8am it doesn't matter if she feels it's more like 5am to her . I've worked nights, I know what it's like, but if you choose to work nights then normal noise during the day while your trying to sleep is just something you have to put up with

I don't see how you could possibly be accused of doing anything wrong and I don't think you should try to find ways to do things differently or be quieter, don't pander to this woman or it will be a slippery slope

I do get on really nicely with my neighbours and have chatty relationships with them. My neighbours also engage very sweetly with the DC including giving them gifts from time to time, talking to them etc - ie I'm comfortable all is cool there.

besides just because other neighbours might hear our 5 minute handover doesn't mean they have an issue with it or it is a disturbance to them. Believe me you can hear lots of things from these flats (conversations at bus stop, buses & other traffic esp those really noisy motorbikes, kids getting pissed all night on back stairs, sirens of every kinds day & night, people at the pub across the road etc). A 5 minute handover of a child is nothing in comparison and I would be extremely surprised if anyone else ever objected or even gave two figs.

doodle no she didn't follow ME across London - but something like that.

Ignore, ignore ignore and then ignore some more. It's part and parcel of communal living, tbh. She needs to move out to a detached house to avoid everyday noises like that. Shift work is shitty, but you can't expect everyone else to be silent at perfectly acceptable daytime hours!

I agree about respoding encouraging her - especially if there is some History with her (sounds like a nut case?) I think she possibly knows it's not you all thou into and that amount of nose, hence goading you into being cross? I would ignore ignore ignore and keep copies of anything she sends you

sorry my laptop has a mind of it's own should say -

*responding

and

*you all that time and making that amount of noise

she followed your fella?