Received a written compalint from a neighbour - so I have to reply?

[8amIsnt5am]

I've namechanged as details are 'outing'. Sorry it's long but I've tried to include all relevant details.

My DD2 is collected by our CM at 7.55 Mon- Fri. We live in a block of flats, with stairs to access it, so CM rings our buzzer, we take DD down to her. Short interchange and she is off. This takes between 5-10 minutes maximum. It involves some small discussion with CM, kisses and waves bye bye. It is short and we try to keep our voices down - but it is 8am in the morning.

CM can't come to our flat door as its up several flights of stairs and she has a buggy.

My neighbour works shifts. She has written to me claiming I am interfering with her right to peaceful enjoyment of her property, and the above interchange is excessively loud and long and wakes her around 8am, which is the "equivalent of 5am" for her. The noise is so incredibly loud (allegedly) that ear plugs don't work for her.

She claims that the above handover takes 30 minutes or even longer every morning between 7.30 am and 8.20 am and is very loud. This is completely inaccurate. It is 5 minutes most mornings, sometimes 10 maximum if I have forgotten something and have to run back upstairs, and it is ALWAYS at 7.55/8am. It is talking voices only. There are many children in the neighbourhood and a school a short distance away. It seems she is attributing any noise she hears to me & my DD.

She claims sound echos "as I will know from the days when my DP used to go downstairs and shout at the kids"!! Seriously WTF? This has never happened - There was a family with a garden backing onto our flats (right under her window) who had small children and she must be thinking of them. Nothing to do with us.

She claims a right "to peaceful enjoyment" of her property - HR Act language. The HR is re peaceful enjoyment from govt interference is it not? It is not a right to have complete quiet in your flat at all times. I should also add here, for context, that the flats are on a main road & bus route in central London - well used by emergency services vehicles at all times with sirens etc. Its a noisy place day & night.

Even if my children were excessively loud (which they aren't), according to the CAB it is pretty much unactionable.

Surely I am allowed to converse with another person, in a normal voice, outside a block of flats between 7.55 & 8.05 am? The shift patterns of my neighbour really aren't my concern - what if I had 5 neighbours working different shifts? Would it be unreasonable to talk to another person outside my flat at any time of the day lest it's "5am" in someone else's world?

This neighbour and I have history from many years ago before she lived in this flat. I think she is a nasty person and do not want to have anything to do with her at all.

I will of course further attempt to keep our voices down during the handover, and will tell CM that we must talk about anything we need to on the phone later, rather than at collection time, but I really don't think that we are doing anything wrong at all. However I do not want to engage with her on any level or reply to her ridiculous & wildly inaccurate email.

Apparently she is also complaining to all the other residents in the flats about us - I get on really well with the neighbours I know (several) and no one has ever said anything to me about noise. I apologised to our immediate neighbour re noise one day recently when DD1 was having the mightiest tantrum & he knocked on our door (about another matter) - he hadn't heard a thing!

Clearly I think her complaint is inaccurate and unjustified. She should invest in some of those wax ear plugs if she has an issue with noise and needs to sleep during the day, as shift workers the world over do (my parents were shift workers so I am well aware of the stresses they are re sleep under having grown up with it).

Do you think I have a legal duty to reply to her email?

To answers some questions:
The CM buzzing our flat doorbell doesn't cause any noise. She doesn't even speak to us - just buzzes inside my flat.
I do meet the CM outside the flats - on a path outside the communal entrance at the back of the flats. It is approx 10 meters and 3 floors below the neighbours bedroom window.

The handover isn't lengthy - it is usually 5 minutes or less. We say good morning, hand DD to CM, get DD into buggy, kiss DD & wave bye bye. We don't have long discussions - just things like "she didn't sleep well" or "she hasn't eaten breakfast this morning and will probably be hungry".
I did say above that I will, from now on if at all possible, discuss anything that needs to be discussed with CM on the phone or when I pick up.

I am not TRYING to be inconsiderate to my neighbours - but just going about my family life.

postBB the DPAct thing is a red herring really & I don't care much. But she is not contacting me Secretary but as a private individual with inaccurate accusations.

I'd go with sarky's

should read 10 meters or more to the side of bedroom window - in addition to the distance of the 3 floors

Fushia - 8am doesn't have a long chat with her CM - she says the whole thing usually takes less than 5 mins.

It may well be that as Secretary of the Residents Association, she is the first point of call in the case of any concerns residents may have about issues that affect them. - She isn't, and it is a very informal RA of approx 6-8 people.

'Dear God, can you please stop your nuns ringing the bells for ten minutes mon-sat at 6.20am? It is interfering with my right to a lie in'.

Sounds like she's blaming you for every noise she hears in the morning from every passerby and every child!

What's the history?

I don't really want to go into the history fuckadoodle but let just say I was very surprised that she brought a flat in my block (moving across London to do so) and found it quite 'stalkery' initially.

I have since treated her like a ghost - I'm not rude but I just ignore her completely on the rare occasion I see her on the street. I'm thankful we don't share a communal entrance.

Peaceful enjoyment of property is a common law concept as well, predating the Human Rights Act. Sounds more as though she is trying to set up a case for nuisance than an HRA claim.

No chance of success though, on these facts, I wouldn't have thought.

Why can't you just respond saying I am sorry that you are upset about this and that you will do your best to make handover as quiet as possible. It is so rude if you do not respond to her email.

Do you live in our block? Sounds do echo Lang the walls here. I know. I think my three kids are so noisy. Then I shout at them to be quiet.

Lots of great info there www.nfh.org.uk/law/noise_act_1996/index.php#2.

In essence, nighttime is considered between 11pm and 7am, so it terms if noise rules, unkess your block has different rules, you are fine.

In terms of getting back, I would do a mix of Sarky's: am not certain that it is us as the times you mentioned do not match with our pick up, but I will certainly continue to keep our pick up as quiet as reasonable. Lots of empathy is good. Sometimes people just want to know that they have been understood, even if nothing can or should be done. Plus if it escalates, it will shw council that you acted reasonably, politely.

Good luck.

Argh. So many typos! Along not Lang. The rest makes sense-ish I think...

Fushia I have considered that but I think she is a horrible horrible person who I have no wish to engage with at all. Replying would then mean she will respond etc etc.

If she had a valid complaint I would respond - but I don't believe she does. I started this thread to get some clarity/ideas about that.

To respond to her is just to encourage her. She had made wildly inaccurate and unfounded accusations. If it was any other neighbour I would probably respond to put them straight and to be polite. Whilst I don't wish to be deliberately antagonistic to her, I also have not reason or desire to reply out of 'politeness'. I do not mind one bit that it may be rude not to reply in fact i hope it is. I consider her email extremely rude and her attempt to interfere with my family's life beyond rude.

Thanks Eldritch - I will look into peaceful enjoyment WRT common law further.

Eldritch is right, peaceful enjoyment of property is for nuisance claims, so she's probably going for noise nuisance. 8am isn't unreasonable, nor is a 5 minute handover. She sounds like a read dragon to be honest with you, blocks of flats are noisy as she's surrounded by so many people. She can't reasonably expect everyone to be quiet because she works shifts.
Her next step will be to keep a record of the 'noise' and how it affects her. I'd be surprised if she isn't doing this already. If she's contacted Environmental Health they will look at her claim, and if necessary they will monitor the noise. If they find this noise excessive or it's malicious they will start and action. I really doubt they will act if the noise is from a buzzer or children playing though.

I wouldn't reply to her.

it does thanks Frequent

Her next step will be to keep a record of the 'noise' and how it affects her. I'd be surprised if she isn't doing this already.

I think so too. I will start to keep a detailed log of handover times etc. Thanks

No problem. How close is her flat to yours? Not that it matters, but it may help if the CM sends you a text or calls you to say she's downstairs.

can imagine how difficult and at times infuriating this must be for said complainant but it only means she should put up and shut up or move. as a night worker you have to put up with all sorts of disturbances in the daytime. Workmen/ road workers are a constant nightmare but a necessity. I would keep a record yourself with back up from CM. Our local milkman used to come along at 5am - and as for the birds and their wake up call it used to drive me mad but you adjust and learn to block it all out.

OP I once had a horrible old neighbour, I lived upstairs and he lived beside the communal entrance door which wasn't locked.

Basically he complained about the awful noise that the door made when people went in and out and came out onto the street and harangued me every time I left the flat.

In the interests of being neighbourly I got a joiner to have a look at it and he put some of the padding tape round it to dull the noise but at the end of the day it was a communal door and shutting mechanism was in place for fire safety.

My efforts didn't satisfy him at all - in fact I think my attempt to sort the "problem" out meant he saw me as being weak so I can see why you don't want to respond personally.

I got a solicitors letter which only cost me £25 although that was a while ago which stated that it was a communal access door and that I would take further action if he did not stop harassing me - did the trick as I never heard a peep from him again. May be worth ringing up and checking how much it would cost you to get a letter - know its a pain having to pay for it but if she is as awful as you say it may be worthwhile to get your peace of mind back.

Point taken, I understand why you don't want to enter into any form of communication with her.

That was harassment, theoriginalbestrookie. It's a bit like someone moving next to a school, then complaining that it's noisy. Of course it's going to be noisy, they shouldn't have moved there if they thought otherwise. If you move into a flat which is next to a fire door then you have to expect people to go through it, likewise if you move into a flat you can't expect people to be like little quiet mice just because you work shifts.

Dear Neighbour,
I am sorry you are being disturbed between 7:30am and 8:20am. I do endeavour to keep the noise down when my daughter's childminder collects her at 7:55am but I am afraid I can not do anything about the noise which happens outside of the 5 minutes this hand over takes.
I really hope you get to the bottom of this and find out who is disturbing your peaceful enjoyment of your property as I do understand how annoying loud noise in the morning can be.

Lots of love
8am

it wouldn't make any difference.

She doesn't hear my internal doorbell buzzing or the CM ringing the doorbell. The "noise" is from me talking to CM outside of the flats in a normal to quiet voice, and saying goodbye to DD2 (note I'm not an OTT Mummy going BYEEE DARLING KISSES KISSES etc at top of my voice every morning )

her bedroom window, like all others in the block is at the back of the flats. the communal entrance's to the flats is also at the back of the block.

euwa I had a blackbird living in trees outside my bedroom window that chirped loudly & constantly day & night for 2 spring/summers. I agree you just block it out.

You need to write a lengthy rebuttal of her claims. Then you need to write to her (rather than talk, so you have a record of it) and be as conciliatory as possible WITHOUT APOLOGISING. Then if she's still awful and threatening you need to give her the rebuttal and say if you take it further, this will be our response.

She doesn't want to take it further, I can almost guarantee it. The best thing to do is be quieter in the mornings. You are in the right, but it's nice to be considerate.