Contact query

[Namechangerjustincase]

I've namechanged due to ex-H Dsis who uses MN and may know my usual name.

I have a DD aged 10 (nearly 11) and a DS who is 5. Ex-H and I split up 4 years ago and things have been pretty fraught since. Ex lives 90 miles away with his new family.

Things ended up in court last year and we have ended up with ex-H having the children pretty much every other weekend. (Sometimes ex has agreed to let the DCs go to something particularly important or I've had to take matters into my own hands on a couple of occasions). The DCs were not happy with the order though agreed to give it a go. My DS is exhausted now he is at school and it is too far for him to travel that often in my view. My DD has commitments to swimming and her regional orchestra which are very difficult to continue on an every other week basis. I have always said I am happy for him to come up here to see the DCs. In fact I WANT them to have a good relationship as they love him and love spending time with him. But he has to take them to their activities or they will fall behind, miss out on opportunities and will come to resent him. DD also has secondary school applications this year and needs to have a good range of extracurricular activities to have a chance of a scholarship. I can't afford to send her to a good school without one and our local state schools do not have good reports.

When we went to court I was shocked that the judge did not seem to consider that someone should talk to the children about what they want even though I said I wanted a CAFCASS report. He simply listened to my ex saying that he couldn't commit to taking my DCs to their activities because of his 2 yr old twins and that therefore the DCs should be the ones to uproot twice a month to bond with his new family. I was proposing that he stay in a B&B with the DCs so he doesnt feel like im interfering and can have some quality time alone with them. I feel he shouldn't have had a new family if it's going to impact on the one he already has, or at least, if he choses to do so then my DCs shouldn't be the ones to suffer.

We have a review again in November and there are several issues. I cancelled a couple of contact weekends due to DD having rehearsals which made exH angry but I want to demonstrate that it isn't practical to have a fixed contact order when she has things like this to do. A more flexible arrangement where we decide each month what time she has to balance seeing her father with her regular committmemts is what DD wants and is in her interest. He can always join in with anything she is doing, I won't stop him.

What is the best way of persuading a court that a standard every other weekend doesn't suit in our case? In previous hearings I've said I'm only prepared to look forward a few months in advance but I'm worried they might just impose something on us.

Also how can I ask a judge for someone to speak to DD at least. How can I ensure this? Will they listen to her now she is nearly 11?

I'm self representing. I saw a solicitor and had a barrister to start with but I really can't afford it anymore.

Sorry this is so long!

I asked you of you discussed the court situation with them

They are aware that we are trying to work out what the best thing is for them in terms of contact and that because we can't agree it has gone to court, yes. They have the letter that CAFCASS send to all children at the start of contact proceedings which also explains that. DD in particular is aware that someone from the court may want to talk to her and she wants this. She also knows because I've told her that I don't mind if she choses going to her fathers over her activities.

Olgaga - the difference is that you are offering a view based upon how you would like the court to deal with things. Others are offering a professional view based upon what they, in their experience, believe the court will do. It's up to the OP to decide which view she wishes to rely on, as she will have to bear the consequences if she gets it wrong.

OP the judge sometimes doesn't order a cafcass report because cafcass are overloaded and not all cases get one appointed. Usually in cases where there is an element of child welfare at stake get a cafcass officer appointed. By way of example, I have a final hearing next week where there is no cafcass report. The parents cannot agree on the amount of contact - should a weekend be friday to sunday or friday to monday, should a midweek contact period be overnight, and whether the father should get a bit more during the holidays. That sort of thing. Therefore no professional input is needed to help the court judge the child's best interests.

If you want tips on how best to represent yourself I suggest you use your solicitor for occasional advice, or see if your barrister will accept you as a direct access client and just use them for hearings. Advocacy tips (like skeleton arguments) can't really be given on these forums. We simply don't know enough about your case.

OP you might give this a try too - I have updated my information (above) to include it, and added a statement about seeking the advice of a specialist family lawyer (as in my Divorce and Relationship Breakdown information) to satisfy everyone's concerns!

www.direct.gov.uk/en/Dl1/Directories/UsefulContactsByCategory/Governmentcitizensandrightscontacts/DG_195356

It might just be worth checking your eligibility for Legal Aid again too - you can do it through the helpline.

Good luck.

Thanks collaborate. I know from other threads you are a lawyer and I do appreciate you giving your advice for free. I also realise that it is difficult to advise on specifics on a forum - I guess I was just hoping there might be something glaringly obvious I'd missed. I did want a full CAFCASS report initially but that was turned down so I was hoping there was at least scope for asking for a wishes and feelings report. I find it difficult to understand how a court can make a decision based on all the points in the welfare checklist if they haven't taken steps to find out about the DCs wishes and feelings.

Olgaga - I'm not eligible for legal aid unfortunately. Whether or not you are a lawyer thanks for your advice! I think sometimes if you have been through this sort of process you end up getting passionate about trying up help people in a similar positions perhaps.

OP

1. The problem is that Schedules where the children can see in advance when contact is happening is seen by courts to be more structured and beneficial to children. Your ex has also demonstrated a degree of flexibility (such as the friends birthday party for your son and some rehearsals for your daughter).
2. Regardless of if courts talk to children or not may not have the sway you think it may have.

Court is always a gamble as there is no way of knowing exactly how the judge will set up the contact order.
One extreme maybe that you get you way and the contact is reduced (IMHO I do notbeleive this is fair to the children but that is an opinion).

The other extreme is that court decide residence should move to the father due to what they see as you trying to prevent / limit contact and due to the reality that they have siblings that they need to build full sibling relations with.

Those are extreme examples and realistically a middle ground is far more likely such as every other weekend and half holidays due to distance. You say it is too tiring for you son due to his age but your daughter must have been quite near that age when the contact first started after your move.

The DCs have only started every other week this year. Initially exH did come up here. There was also a period of no contact but that's another story and the usual used to be a weekend once a month. This was better in my opinion but I was concerned even that was too much.

He hasn't requested residence so I don't see why the courts would order that. Also I'm not asking to reduce contact - just that my DD gets to go to her activities and they stay up here. So neither extreme is likely.

One of my questions was how likely is it that a court will listen to a mature 10 (nearly 11) year old. So I am aware she may still be considered too young.

Going back to your OP, I do think that it would be fair of their Dad to go to them and stay in B&B for the night or just go for the day so he can see them. I think that's what I would do if I was a NRP knowing that my children were busy with things and their time is precious.

I have never understood why people expect several children to sit in a car for hours on end to spend a few hours with their parent in their home, missing their weekends with friends to suit their parents.

I also think it would be fair to simply extend his holiday time with them as an alternative to weekend contact.

Just my view, not legal advice.

A child of that age and maturity will be listened to, although their views will not be determinative.

Achlillea I agree it is unfair to make a child sit for hours in a car which is why I do not think one parent should move the children away from the other parent as the move is going to result in the children having to spend time travelling between their 2 homes regularly. How ever the op has moved and the father has 2 other younger children in the original home of op children. So either the older children need to travel or the younger children need to travel to maintain their relationship with their siblings. The parents of the younger children did not move away.

He may not have requested residence at this point in time does not mean he wouldn't want it or if things progress to court wonder what he has to lose by having it as an option.

And contact has been reduced already by you cancelling the court order contact on a couple of weekends. How about if you ex cancels you holiday contact by not returning on agreed dates. Would you find that acceptable?

either the older children need to travel or the younger children need to travel to maintain their relationship with their siblings Latemates I assumed that the visit was to have contact with Dad, not with half-siblings. Is that a requirement that half-siblings have contact with each other? (excuse my ignorance, I really have no experience of this)

It is seen as important that contact allows opportunities for time with the wider family (aunties, uncles, grandparents, cousins etc) this is for the each parent to manage within their time.
siblings and half siblings are classed as fundamental family which is why courts do not like to split siblings up in foster or adoption cases or in relation to residence. (not to say that it can't and hasn't happened if the circumstances require it).

court will weigh this up among many other factors IMHO
Normal family contact should constitute normal day to day life. Such as cooking and eating together, watching tv, helping with homework, activities as a family to name just a few. I would image it would be hard to do that if everyone is cramped into a Bed and breakfast.

Namechanger thank you! "Passionate" - makes a nice change from some of the other stuff I get called!

Your children will always know who their father is - they're not likely to forget him, you are obviously trying to make sure of that. Perhaps you can explore other ways of contact? How often does he call/email/skype, for example?

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect your ex to support DD's activities - most parents would be proud and pleased that their child is involved in a regional orchestra. Why should her activities be seen as a barrier you have instigated? At your daughter's age, you could hardly force her to do activities like that if she didn't want to do it, simply to thwart contact.

I certainly think that at your review in November it would be worth making it clear that you would be willing to try Mediation again, despite your past experiences and the likelihood that he would refuse. It's always possible that he may feel differently now. Some Resolution Mediators are also qualified to consult with children, which would give your DD a chance to have her voice heard in a neutral, structured environment too:

ttp:www.resolution.org.uk/editorial.asp?page_id=54

Whether or not you feel that is worthwhile, you will find the information leaflets provided by Maypole very useful, especially if you have to represent yourself. There is a small charge - they are a charity.

www.maypole.org.uk/information-leaflets.htm

Latemates, I understand that the purpose of contact is to include wider family but these siblings have never lived together and their step mother has no connection with them. This cannot be compared to a situation where siblings lived together historically. There are holidays and other times to see other family members.

I do see though that the children wouldn't be part of Dad's normal family life if they don't see him at home.

Of course the step mother has a connection she is the step mother. The point of regular contact is to build connections so that the children feel connected to their paternal family and most importantly part of that family and not occasional visitors.

Children of separated parents have due to their parents separation 2 homes, 2 families and 2 lives that co exist. The role of both parents is to support the children so that the adapt and cope with everything entailed with having 2 families.

OP, the consensus seems to be from what information you have posted that you seem to be putting obstacles between your children having a realtionship with their father.

Olgaga, the only service you seem to provide is a repositry of Government and womens aid URLs, your MO being your template help page that you have on speed dial - not one post from you promotes the FACT both parents are equal and not one of your posts considers the children, only the mothers.

B&B - yeah, thats really child centric!!

I have to say that Olgaga's template post can be helpful to those who have to start from scratch and acquaint themselves with information.

It doesn't help the OP if a bunfight develops. I have only posted to correct where Olgaga has given incorrect advice. I will always do that. Whatever agendas anyone has to promote, OP posted here for some advice. Perhaps we could leave it at that.

I think people have tried very hard to answer at least the first of your questions. To be clear; the best way of convincing a court that a rigid every other weekend pattern is not the best thing for your family is to provide a reasonable alternative plan. The court have rejected your B&B plan and are giving you the opportunity to show them that you can agree a pattern between yourselves. However, although you acknowledge the love the children have for their father, it is hard to see how they can have any contact during term time at all, as your position is that they have weekly activities that they mustn't miss and in any case it is too far. But you aren't willing to be flexible about holidays either - and you've shown that if your ex won't agree to forgo his parenting time, you will unilaterally deny him it.

Unless you can, on reflection, make some compromises and show your support for the children's relationship with their father by your actions rather than lip service, the court will have no choice but to order a contact pattern that will give the children the best opportunity to have a meaningful relationship with their father and half-siblings as this is without doubt considered to be (and backed up by much research) in their best interests.

I feel sad reading your post OP. I cant see anywhere what the actual problem with your Ex is other than you want your children to yourself which I can totally understand but we have to be adults and do the right thing for our children. I wonder if the reason I have had such a hard time in the family courts is because they assume I am like you. I don't even want to go into my situation but my children are a hell of a lot more resistant to contact than the lure of any orchestra practice. I don't want to join in the flaming of you because I know you're not a bad person but I can guarantee your arguments are lame and you will cause yourself a whole lost of distress if you get yourself any further involved with the court system. Call your ex up and go for mediation or the court will just make a decision for you that you really wont like.

and some people are just thick as pig shit.