Contact query

[Namechangerjustincase]

I've namechanged due to ex-H Dsis who uses MN and may know my usual name.

I have a DD aged 10 (nearly 11) and a DS who is 5. Ex-H and I split up 4 years ago and things have been pretty fraught since. Ex lives 90 miles away with his new family.

Things ended up in court last year and we have ended up with ex-H having the children pretty much every other weekend. (Sometimes ex has agreed to let the DCs go to something particularly important or I've had to take matters into my own hands on a couple of occasions). The DCs were not happy with the order though agreed to give it a go. My DS is exhausted now he is at school and it is too far for him to travel that often in my view. My DD has commitments to swimming and her regional orchestra which are very difficult to continue on an every other week basis. I have always said I am happy for him to come up here to see the DCs. In fact I WANT them to have a good relationship as they love him and love spending time with him. But he has to take them to their activities or they will fall behind, miss out on opportunities and will come to resent him. DD also has secondary school applications this year and needs to have a good range of extracurricular activities to have a chance of a scholarship. I can't afford to send her to a good school without one and our local state schools do not have good reports.

When we went to court I was shocked that the judge did not seem to consider that someone should talk to the children about what they want even though I said I wanted a CAFCASS report. He simply listened to my ex saying that he couldn't commit to taking my DCs to their activities because of his 2 yr old twins and that therefore the DCs should be the ones to uproot twice a month to bond with his new family. I was proposing that he stay in a B&B with the DCs so he doesnt feel like im interfering and can have some quality time alone with them. I feel he shouldn't have had a new family if it's going to impact on the one he already has, or at least, if he choses to do so then my DCs shouldn't be the ones to suffer.

We have a review again in November and there are several issues. I cancelled a couple of contact weekends due to DD having rehearsals which made exH angry but I want to demonstrate that it isn't practical to have a fixed contact order when she has things like this to do. A more flexible arrangement where we decide each month what time she has to balance seeing her father with her regular committmemts is what DD wants and is in her interest. He can always join in with anything she is doing, I won't stop him.

What is the best way of persuading a court that a standard every other weekend doesn't suit in our case? In previous hearings I've said I'm only prepared to look forward a few months in advance but I'm worried they might just impose something on us.

Also how can I ask a judge for someone to speak to DD at least. How can I ensure this? Will they listen to her now she is nearly 11?

I'm self representing. I saw a solicitor and had a barrister to start with but I really can't afford it anymore.

Sorry this is so long!

Thats the point they should have a life there that's their home too.

How would you feel if the children lived with their father and came to you at weekends sometimes but other times you stayed in a BandB there apso that they could still do their normal activities?

No wonder your daughter is tired - sounds like she has a crazy schedule.

If you want her to have time to relax reduce your holidays and holiday club commitments in your time simples.

Only I guess you think it's important that she does nice things with you as her mother. Well guess what nice things and normal day to day life with her father is equally important if not more so due to the limited time they have together as family

But if their Dad stays in the area that you moved away to, then he will be away from his 2 small children and your children will also not see them. In addition how do you propose they have a relationship with their paternal Grandparents/Aunts and Uncles etc??

I am in this situation on both sides and it can be done. My children do their activities in the week and if it falls on a weekend then it's a no - they cannot do everything.

Also, they can do things on alternate weekends. Mine do horse riding bi weekly with their Dad and it's fine for example. My step children have never lived in this area full time but they have friends and activities and a life here as well, and that's how it should be. My friend is a professional cake maker and is teaching My step daughter to bake - my point is as a step mum my experiencs and contacts add value to their lives as well as their Dad's. It's just crazy to say they only need thier Dad - the whole family experience is very valuable and very important.

My ex is remarried and my DC have a whole range of new step relatives - they have all accepted my DC and they get different things from being allowed time in that home environment, rather than just organised activities organised activities, organisd activities all the time.

The court made an order that they decided is in your children's interests and you ignore it because it doesn't fit your plan for your children which is 90 miles away from their Dad and his new family and dictated entirely by you.

It just sounds crazy, it sounds all about what YOU want but he is their Dad and he has just as much right to make decisions for his children as you do. Sorry but that is a fact

Olgaga your own link says it is harmful to children to prevent contact

I have never advocated preventing contact unless there is violence or abuse. OP is not preventing contact and doesn't wish to.

How do you know she has their best interests at heart?

I read her posts!

It is in their best interests to have a full relationship with both parents.

It is the child's right to maintain a continuing relationship. Not a "full" relationship, or even a "meaningful" relationship. OP has done nothing to prevent a continuing relationship.

NameChanger The court will usually ask for a report when there is a dispute, I think they simply put it off in the hope that some kind of settlement can be reached. However if that's not possible, for the very valid reasons you have put forward, they may decide to request a report at your next hearing - especially if you urge the court to do so.

In addition to the links I posted above, you could try here - they have a Freephone advice line:

www.gingerbread.org.uk/uploads/media/17/7222.pdf

Cancelled contact is preventing contact olgaga.

I disagree it is in their best interest to have a full relationship with both parents and their siblings. That's what a real family is. Bed and breakfast and eating out is Disney parenting, tine at your family home with your full paternal family, doing normal family things is real parenting.

Activities do not come above a patents time with their child.

OP I think it's very unfair to say he shouldn't have had more children if he can't give time to the ones he already has - children aren't given priority in the order they're born in! He now has to split his time/love/money four ways instead of two.

I say this as someone who had every other weekend access to my Dad who was more than 90 miles away. Thank god my mum didn't prioritise clubs and musical instruments!

Thanks olgaga. I will look at the links are helpful as is your advice about CAFCASS. Perhaps I should just refuse to agree any more dates at the next hearing unless the courts talk to the DCs then?

Elvis. I know extended family are important but my DCs rarely see my parents as they live abroad. This is one of the reasons why we go away so much in the holidays! I dont see why they can't form a relationship with their new siblings in their half of the holidays. Also there is no reason why the DCs stepmum, siblings, aunts and grandparents can't come and stay here too sometimes and then they would all benefit from being part of the DCs life here.

As for how I would feel if the situation was reversed. Well, I would do anything to continue being part of their lives whatever that took. Only last term DD and I went to stay in a hotel so she could go to a music course so I'm only asking exH to do what I'm doing already.

Staying at a hotel for a music course when you have normal family life the rest of the time is no where near the same thing and the fact you can see that really shows how out of touch with what you are expecting your ex to do.

Yes they can all cme stay in a hotel but that is not allowing the children to build links with their other home, that is not allowing them the opportunity of real family life.

If your children didn't want to go to school every day would you accept that at nearly 11 your child can make that decision and let them both stay home whenever they wanted?

DS loves school and DD would not make that decision. As I have said, she is very mature for her age.

That rather misses the point of the question.... Talk about avoiding the question

I appreciate you have a different position latemates but really I am not avoiding the question. The point is that if DD was the sort of child who made bad decisions then I might be in agreement but she doesn't make bad decisions and would never decide to leave school. If she did come to that conclusion I might seriously think about home education in fact. I do however accept that DS is too young.

Your putting a decision in your Childs hands which is IMHO not a decision they should have the pressure to make. School is a legal requirement which is why I used it as an example.
If you accept ds is too young why has his contact also been stopped on occasion?
Could he not of gone to his dads even if his sister could not?

And you may believe her not wanting to go to her dads is a good decision because it is what you want. And then people may wonder if she is saying that as she knows it is what you want and wants to make you happy with her right sensible decisions that mum approves of

Actually, DS did go on the cancelled weekends except once when he had his first invite from a new school friend for a birthday party. On that occasion exH was in agreement that this was important so I have never broken the order for DS.

Also, DD knows it makes no difference to me what she decides and I don't put any pressure on her.

Well you and their father know the children best so will either have to come to an agreement together or let the court decide and respect the court order what ever that may be.
Good luck

OP all you need to know is that olgaga has given you the valiadation you need...carry on empowering your kids and disenfranchising their father from their lives...they will be the losers and so will you when they figure you out...

Olgaga you're making it up. It doesn't say what you suggest on pages 12 & 13 of the cafcass document. Your suggestions for "suitable" contact are parsimonious in the extreme and would be far less than would be ordered by a court in an average case. 2 hours a week for a baby? Can I say that it shows you're not a lawyer. Please don't pass off your posts as being legal advice. It may give some people false expectations, not to mention the damage that can be caused to a child's relationship with an absent parent if your suggestions are adopted.

Olgaga, is it me or is every one that opposes or challenges your view embittered and biased.

From where i stand they have been child focused and all you have done is side with the OP merely i believe because she is the mother.

You also like to quote your experience of the courts - can i ask is that from a professional point of view or personal because it lends weight to your own advice. I have found it contradicts my own experience being the father having found it quite positive.

OP, any chance you can explain which of your actions have put your children first.

I find it abhorrent you have discussed the 'things' with your kids. What decisions are you involving your children?

Collaborate

Once again you accuse me of "pretending to be a lawyer", and "passing off my views as legal advice". I have never done this. I refer to the information in my posts as advice and links.

If you actually bothered to look at the link in my post to the Cafcass document, and read pages 12 and 13, you would see I am not "making it up" - the paragraphs I reproduce are taken directly from the document.

You are entitled to express your opinion that the examples I give are "parsimonious in the extreme". They are examples which, as I point out, cater for the age and need of the child. I do not pretend they are guidelines. As I also point out, each case is dealt with on an individual basis.

3xcookedchips

all you have done is side with the OP merely i believe because she is the mother

In actual fact, I have not "sided with the OP" for that reason. I have been supportive to her because I can see she is plainly doing her best for her children, putting their needs and wishes first, and is preparing to defend their needs and wishes in front of a family court judge.

In any case, it may have escaped your notice, but the name of this website is Mumsnet. It does rather imply that mothers may come here expecting support, rather than being interrogated and insulted by unsympathetic and antagonistic posters such as yourself.

As I have said - I simply wish to redress the balance and give women like the OP some support and point them in the direction of good legal advice.

OP: you have now had advice from two practising family solicitors (STIDW and Collaborate), you have also had advice from one person of unknown legal training (Olgaga).

You are latching on to anyone who is reinforcing your viewpoint while shouting down anyone who has voiced an opposing position. I suggest that you are not here for advice, merely for validation of your own position. Congratulations, Olgaga has provided that to you.

I am not a lawyer and I am not going to get into who is right and who is wrong in this specific case, I will say that you are not balancing the advice you are being given however.

Olgaga I'm not criticising you advice. Yours may well prove to be the correct position, or it may not. My point is thst the OP is choosing to listen only to you because it backs up her current view without properly considering other viewpoints.

Olgaga: you say that your postings cannot be construed as legal advice. If someone asks me about how best to treat a medical condition and I give my opinion do you think that won't be counted as medical advice just because I'm not a doctor?

What the cafcass report says is this:

Younger children usually
manage frequent, short periods of contact
best; older children may prefer longer,
less frequent periods.

Your spin on that then became this:

*Here are some examples of contact arrangements which cater for the age and needs of of the child:

Baby: a couple of hours each Saturday morning,

Young toddler: a day each weekend: with very young children who have a short memory span frequent shorter contact is better than longer periods further apart*

For the avoidance of doubt, please will you confirm how many child contact cases you have been involved with which have been adjudicated upon by the courts or dealt with by cafcass upon which you feel able to interpret the cafcass document in this way. I assume none, unless you have been a parent involved in such disputes yourself. I cannot possibly see therefore how you can add anything useful to the OP.

If what you post is your personal opinion on what you think reasonable contact should be, then please make that clear. Others on this site are good enough to give their considered professional opinion.

NameChanger

You might also be reassured by reading the Cafcass booklet 'Parenting Plans: Putting Your Children First"

www.cafcass.gov.uk/PDF/FINAL%20web%20version%20251108.pdf

On page 23, it says:

Key circumstances to take into account include:

Your children?s ages, school, interests, and friends. Try to keep all these stable
if you possibly can. Older children are likely to have their own friendships, interests and hobbies. These need to be taken into account when making
arrangements for them to spend time with each of you.

also:

Where each of you live: If you live near each other, it is often easier to make
regular and frequent arrangements to see the children, but if you live further
away this can be more complicated.

On this issue of the fact that you moved away for family and support reasons, presumably this was some time ago and he has never made any formal objections to your move during that time. You have also been sharing the journey. So I think the fact that you moved away is a bit of a non-issue in the current proceedings.

The main issue is your children's ages, school, interests and friends - which is acknowledged to be a "Key circumstance" to take into account.

blibbleflop I think the OP sounds like an intelligent woman and is well aware of the wide range of views on this issue. She is entitled to ignore views which she may find unhelpful, negative, antagonistic or accusatory and which unfairly question her behaviour and motives.

I would also point out (once again) that each case is considered on an individual basis. I am not saying what the court will or will not decide. Lawyers cannot do that either. Only judges can make these decisions, based on the merits of each party's representations to the court. I am simply pointing OP towards relevant advice, websites and publications which will assist her in making those representations.

Just like you, and any other user of this website including the OP, I am entitled to offer my opinions, or an alternative view - whether in support or opposition, engage with posts I agree with and (Collaborate, please note) ignore posts if I feel they do not merit a response.

bibbleflop: the reason I am listening to olgaga is that she is the one who is answering my questions. If you look at my op you will see that I have given some background information on my position and asked two very specific questions which are

1. How can I persuade a court a rigid every other weekend doesn't suit in our case given that a very flexible, 'non-scheduled' approach would work better.
2. How can I persuade them to actually speak to DD. I would like them to speak to DS too but I do understand that 5 is too young to decide himself.

Aside from olgaga everyone else has chosen to attack my position which I am quite capable of arguing and believe to be in my childrens interest.

3x you say you find it abhorrent that I discuss things with my children. Are you telling me you don't ask your children if they'd like to participate in any clubs or events you sign them up to? Do you not speak to them about what they would like to do in their freetime?

Olgaga, could you express what your experience of the Family courts is then your advice can be given the due weighting it deserves.

On another thread I noted you proclaimed no court would give overnight when a child was 14mths...which is actually not true.

If you could let us all know, that would be helpful thanks