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who is most likely to win in court?!

23 replies

cheryl90 · 17/09/2012 09:41

Hi guys,i have a solicitor just shes busty at the minute and this is whats ticking away in my head....my ex has regular contact with my daughter but now hes asking to take her away on holiday for 2 weeks ans ive said no,plainly because shes only 5 and ive never been more than 2 days without her,when shes old enough to decide than thats her decission.hes also wanting xmas day contact and ive said he could have her boxing day over night.if this gets took to court who would be more likely to win their case?! Hes not been the best role eg; he stopped contact when he had a gf and he tried keeping her over night and never asked my permission.im done in!!! While hes trying to score points...im thinking of my little girl ive never stopped contact and ive been more than fair! :(

OP posts:
cheryl90 · 17/09/2012 09:42

Not busty lol...busy!!

OP posts:
Aspiemum2 · 17/09/2012 09:46

Is there any reason you don't want her to go on holiday other than not wanting to be away from her for 2 weeks? At 5 I would suggest she is more than old enough to have, and enjoy, a holiday with her Dad.

As for Christmas, I take it turn about with my ex - he has them one yr and me the next. It hurts and I miss them but it is fair.

Just wish he'd take them on holiday, hes been on several the last yr and never considered taking them!

cheryl90 · 17/09/2012 10:02

Well ive asked my little one yesterday and she said she doesnt want to leave me, i think its because we are so close.i wouldnt have any contact for 14 days and when i mentioned could i get a phone call or a text he declined.Shes been away for 4days before and she cried to be home,so he had to bring her back.if shes abroad with no contact i will be going spare.Weve been seperated for 4 years and hes never been bothered with xmas contact...until my new partner come along and hes trying to put his foot down x

OP posts:
Aspiemum2 · 17/09/2012 10:17

I know what you're going through, my ex is not a reasonable man. My daughter hates going and it's a constant battle. He wasn't bothered before he got a partner but obviously wants to show what a great dad he is.

My ex doesn't allow phone calls either and I have to admit that I don't think I will allow a long visit until dd is older (she's 8)

Currently they go every other weekend unless ex has something better planned is busy

But you have to appear reasonable to the court, perhaps give him Christmas but not the holiday?

Pooka · 17/09/2012 10:21

I think that alternate Christmases are reasonable tbh.

Re the holiday, a 2 week holiday with no contact is a long time. I went away with my father from similar age, maybe slightly older. Big holiday with all extended fami,y on his side. But I had phone contact with my mother.

BlackberryIce · 17/09/2012 10:22

You really should not have asked your dd! It's not her choice. If it went to court then he is very likely to get the holiday and Xmas day

When is the 2 weeks scheduled for? Is it possible to build up to it? A long weekend, then maybe 5 /6 days? Get her a bit more used to it gradually?

cheryl90 · 17/09/2012 10:39

I asked my daughter because if she really wanted to go than i dont want to stop her.we are very close and i always ask if shes happy the way things are.well she goes to her dads every other weekend for 2 nights and with his work and so on, hes never asked to try getting her used to it.2 weeks to me is very long without her mother...no contact what so ever,especially when i have full custody of her.i see her ever day.this has only started since he knew i had a partner.Hes so unreasonable.He comes over when shes in bed on days hes not supposed to have her demandin contact..and these days that he has her, are set out and they are days hes asked and ive agreed.since solicitors ive agreed to everything and so i thought he would drop it because im being reasonable...but ive had another letter at the weekend and hes draining me! I said in my last letter that a long weekend holiday could be arranged and to let me know what he proposes...so i dont know why hes pushing his luck for 2 weeks.

OP posts:
STIDW · 17/09/2012 10:47

Court orders are for the benefit of children and not about parents winning or loosing. There are no certainties, just probabilities and every court application is treated case by case. Parents sharing the children 50:50 for the quality time at weekends, during the school holidays, Christmases and birthdays isn't at all unusual.

Having said that it doesn't mean that two weeks holidays for a 5 year old would be deemed appropriate if the child hadn't been away from the parent with the majority of care for very long before. In those circumstances it's often a case of building up regular weekend stays into long weekends and then a week at a time before going on holiday for two weeks.

Collaborate · 17/09/2012 11:10

Agree 100% with STIDW.

Perhaps the father could have 1 weeks contact at Christmas/another holiday time, another week next summer, then by summer 2014 the child will be ready for a 2 week holiday.

It shouldn't be the case that you abrogate responsibility for these decisions to a 5 year old.

cheryl90 · 17/09/2012 11:23

I dont think im holding any decisions for my 5 year old.i just think no contact to me is terrible.he goes on 5 weeks trips...not one phone call to see how his little one is.he can do that but i cant.i could understand if hes always wanted this since we split but why start when i have a partner.in past letters hes declined short trips away with her and in the past when hes supposed to pick her up boxing day hes not turned up...with a phone call from his parents saying hes too hungover.

OP posts:
BlackberryIce · 17/09/2012 11:34

What do you mean by 'I have full custody'?

Collaborate · 17/09/2012 11:37

"ive asked my little one yesterday and she said she doesnt want to leave me". Of course she tells you this. She knows it's what you want to hear.

You use it to justify the decision you have made. IMO&E that is the wrong way to go about it.

cheryl90 · 17/09/2012 11:47

Well he tried to take her of me full time...but because i am a good mother, i dont drink,dont do drugs,shes happy, i do my best for her ...he lost! He only sees her every other weekend for a full weekend.collaborate...i asked her because she speaks her mind.2 weeks is too long and my solicitor agreed to that.more so when the longest shes been away is 2 days.hes tried taken her away in the past and shes come home early crying.why would i do that to me and her to suit him? The man that only bothers when he doesnt have a gf? Why disagree to one phone call to see how she is? One text even? Its not too much to ask

OP posts:
BlackberryIce · 17/09/2012 12:07

Has this ever been to court?

Nothing your solicitor says makes any of it legally binding, only court can

This custody thing? You dont have residency ( it's not called custody anymore)if it's not been to court!

YouOldSlag · 17/09/2012 12:16

I think he is being unreasonable if he won't offer phone contact during the holiday.

Please don't ask your 5yo what she wants. I am the child of divorced parents and it feels like shit when they put you on the spot.

Alternate Christmases are fair.

Offer your ex a week's holiday, WITH phone contact and gradually build up so that in a year or two a two week holiday will be do-able. However, I would insist on being able to speak to my child if they were abroad and young.

MOSagain · 17/09/2012 13:42

agree with STIDW and Collaborate
I also think 2 weeks is too long at this point, it should be built up gradually, starting with say a week then 10/14 days You should also have telephone contact in between.

With regards to Christmas, alternate years is fair. Ask yourself how you would feel if you never saw her at Christmas?

cheryl90 · 17/09/2012 14:11

I do often and i totally understand him when it comes to xmas.i asked him if he wanted to have her for a few hours in the morning because my family work until 3pm xmas so we have dinner later...and because he wants to call the shots he disagrees he wants her at 4pm.i cant win.as for the contact to my daughter he totally disagrees.ive even offered to give him the money for her to ring me if she was to go.i dont see me being unfair.me and my daughter are very close and we just cant agree in mediation and the next steps would be court proceedings which i ideally didnt want.im at mediation again soon so i suppose its something i could propose to him gradually having her.

OP posts:
S1eepy · 17/09/2012 14:31

He seems very unreasonable not allowing telephone contact during holidays. I don't think any judge would be impressed with your ex if he made you go to court to get an agreement for phonecalls whilst away!
I too agree that 2 weeks is too long especially as he knows she was upset previously on a longer contact. He sounds like another ex trying to use a child to control you to me. Not a recipe for success sadly!

cheryl90 · 17/09/2012 14:43

Honestly the letter this weekend has made me want to cry my eyes out.im not like one of these people on jeremy kyle sayin he cant see his daughter.i just want him to see that yes he can go 5 weeks without contact (the longest was 5months) but i cant! Shes my little pride and joy.im trying my hardest to do whats best by her i really am, but i just wish he would back of abit.this has only flared up since having another man around but hes brilliant with my daughter and so my ex should be greatful someone is so good to her.hes constantly trying to call the shots and ive agreed to everything up until this letter and im livid with it.its draining.i wrote on here because im finding it hard to talk to my partner and family about it without crying.ive never been in this situation.i just feel with his constant goings on its like bullying and trying to get at me and hes forgetting about the most important person in the middle of it all...my daughter

OP posts:
S1eepy · 17/09/2012 16:07

sadly she's an easy tool for him to use against you. Just make sure you don't stoop to his level which it sounds like you're not. It's a very hard situation to be in, just hope he gets bored or comes to his senses.

cheryl90 · 17/09/2012 16:22

I hope so too.hes in his 30s...and im in my 20s and i feel like im being the most mature about it.i know some people on here (more so men) arent gonna agree and wreckon he should be calling the shots but when hes never been a full time dad by his own accord,then why try calling the shots now.i just hope it goes in my favour because i know hes only doing this to get at me.i never call my daughters dad infront of her and ive never trying persuading her to think the way i do of him.ive always reminded her of how much we both love her.but theres days shes come back home to saying "daddy called u a cow" honestly his mentality is that of a 3 year old.its disheartening because i feel he should be praisin me for bringing her up to have manors,be respectful.shes a lovely little girl and he should be proud.ive warned him before shel end up not liking him if he continues to call me but it doesnt sink in.i dont want her to hate her dad.i lost mine at 14 and i know how much it affected me.so i always want him to be a prince in her eyes.

OP posts:
S1eepy · 17/09/2012 16:35

He sounds like my ex and mine have ended up hating their father. He wonders why and blames me for it. I've never stooped to his level though and I can hold my head up high. My children are older now and know that if they want to see their father I will help them, they also know that I always did the right thing. The reality though sadly is that he will be lucky if he ever gets a xmas card from them.
I think men like our exes need to realise that they have a responsibility to their children, not a right.

olgaga · 17/09/2012 22:09

OP you might find this useful:

Contact ? if you can?t agree...
If you cannot reach agreement between you on contact arrangements - either during a divorce or during discussions about revising contact arrangements, an application for a Residence and Contact Order may be made to the Family Court by either parent.

It is important to note that each case is judged on its own circumstances. The Judge may direct Cafcass to investigate the issues and decide which are relevant for the court to decide. The Cafcass officer will investigate within the framework of the Children Act 1989, taking these factors into account:

(a) the ascertainable wishes and feelings of the child concerned (considered in the light of age and understanding);
(b) physical, emotional and educational needs of the child;
(c) the likely effect on the child of any change in his circumstances;
(d) the age, sex, background of the child and any characteristics of his which the court considers relevant;
(e) any harm which the child has suffered or is at risk of suffering;
(f) how capable each of the parents are, and any other person in relation to whom the court considers the question to be relevant, of meeting the child?s needs;
(g) the range of powers available to the court under this Act in the proceedings in question.

This kind of consideration Cafcass will give to issues around contact can be seen from their own publication ?Time for Children?
www.cafcass.gov.uk/PDF/TimeforChildren.pdf

Amongst other helpful advice in ?Time for Children?, pages 12 and 13 set out the following in relation to children and contact issues:
Children under three may find staying contact more difficult than older children, so particular care and sensitivity is needed when making arrangements at this age

Your parenting plan must be for the benefit of your children and not about parental time-shares. If you do not focus on your children?s needs, they may feel like parcels being moved between addresses.

Your children?s wishes need taking into account. Older children have friends they want to keep and interests that are important to them. They will want parenting plans that allow for their social activities.

Children mature at different rates so do not expect your children to manage similar arrangements to others of the same age; some children are confident and independent, others are shy and clinging.

Young children may need much reassurance to be away from the place they usually see as home without getting distressed.

Younger children usually manage frequent, short periods of contact
best; older children may prefer longer, less frequent periods.

Be flexible and update your parent plan over time. As children grow older their needs and circumstances will change, so will yours.

If there is any violence, alcohol and drug misuse, or psychiatric illness in the family, the parenting plan will need to take account of this to ensure the safety of your children. In order to benefit from contact, children must be safe and need to feel safe. Occasionally the risk of harm to the child will be greater than the possible benefits of contact and it may be best for it not to happen at all or to take place where risks to the child and possibly a parent can be kept to the minimum.

Here are some examples of contact arrangements which cater for the age and needs of of the child:

Baby: a couple of hours each Saturday morning,

Young toddler: a day each weekend: with very young children who have a short memory span frequent shorter contact is better than longer periods further apart

Young children: alternate weekends with one night overnight and maybe an evening each week

Older children: alternate weekends with overnight contact, maybe from Friday night to Sunday night; there could be additionally one night overnight contact a week; some parents agree Thursday nights, which would then provide a continuous long weekend every other weekend.

11 and up: often have sport or other weekend activities and contact must be planned around those. The court will not force a teenager over 14 to have contact with the other parent and at least from the age of about 12 the court takes the child?s wishes strongly into account.

Holiday contact during school holidays can be shared, but would depend again on practical issues such as the parents? working pattern and leave entitlement.

Arrangements for general and family holidays such as Christmas, other religious holidays (if they are important) and the birthdays of the child, the parents and siblings need to be agreed ? it is better if you can do this well in advance.

Special family occasions such as weddings will require some flexibility.

Contact orders or arrangements should always take into account the situation immediately beforehand. If both parents were actively involved in caring that is a different situation to one where one parent has done all the caring and the other is unknown to the child (to give an extreme example). In the first example, overnight care might be possible from the beginning. A parent who has had little to do with day-to-day care, or the reintroduction of an unknown parent will take much more gradual and careful handling. It always depends entirely on the circumstances.

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