Help please, surely this can't be right?

[Threelittlemonkeys]

Hi all, hope someone can give some advice.

My partner and his ex still jointly own the property that was the former family home. They separated but continued to share the property as neither has
anywhere else to go. Then she left one day (without the kids but that's beside the point) as had somewhere else to live and still lives at her new place now. They were not married.

My partner continued to live at the jointly owned property but paid all the mortgage, bills etc. (quite rightly so as she no longer lived there). My partner and I live together now elsewhere (rented) as their home wasn't big enough for us all, so it's time to sell it or ret it out as we can't keep paying for an empty property.

EX doesn't want to live there. My partner doesn't want to live there. So it's sell it or rent it out. It's in negative equity so selling would result in a shortfall of 10k ish. EX has said she won't pay a penny. To rent it out the buy to let mortage rate is higher than the rental income each month so there will again be a monthly shortfall. EX has refused to pay half or pay any maintenance or repairs work that need doing before renting or selling.

Yesterday his solicitor told him there is no wu we can force her to pay anything. If he wants to sell h. Needs to cover the whole 10k. Money we just don't have. :( Apparently because he has solely paid the mortgage and costs for the property for more 2 years and hasn't asked her to contribute it would be seen as unreasonable to ask her to pay anything now.

So she got up and left and gets to walk away from the property which is basically a massive debt and DP gets dumped with the stress, worry and expense. Solicitor did say he could ask EX to sign deeds over to him so it was at least in his control if he wants to rent it out as she currently likes to turn up there and go in and move things/ store her belongings there etc. Basically using the property despite not paying anything towards it or taking any responsibility for it.

They both work full time and both have a good wage. He gets a bit more than her but not a massive difference.

Is this correct? (Im hoping someone will tell me his solicitor was wrong although I know it's unlikely).

Any advice would be great as we are currently paying for a mortgage for an empty property, our rental
home and also trying to redecorate it to sell or rent it out.

He could apply for an order for sale of the property under the Trust of Land Act (TOLATA for short).

There will be a debt shortfall on sale, and he would have a right to recover from her any excess he pays over half. Not sure why he would though when it's £10k negative equity. I wouldn't bother going to court and paying legal fees for the sake of recovering £5k.

Thank you. So, as we thought, he's going to have to pay all the shortfall if he sells. Would the court costs to recover tw 5k likely
be a lot then? (clueless).

He will probably have to apply for an order to sell as she refuses to agree or discuss anything about the property now she's left as she doesn't give a hoot about it anymore. :(

He's was going to book an appointment with the bank next week to ask if that after sale the 10k (approx) shortfall can be put into a loan that he can pay off monthly. He was hoping they would agree to split it between him and his EX so they both a 5k loan to repay. But I assume that's not an option without her agreement?

I suppose who would agree to pay money when they know they can walk away an get away with it! Pretty nasty thing to do to the other parent of your children though :(

If it's under £5k he can issue in the small claims court. That's designed for people acting for themselves, and legal costs aren't recoverable (only court fees and such like).

Ok thank you. Sorry to ask so many questions, but...

So if he applies for the TOLAT I assume he will be granted the order to sell given she hasn't lived there or wanted to or paid for anything for ages. Is there a minimum time someone shouldn't have lived there for?

Then he sells and applies to small claims court for less than 5k. How likely would he be to win due to mortgage wing in joint names?

Thank you again, just trying to see a way through as it it causing lots of problems and financial worries.

I dont know about the TOLAT, but you should be aware that even if he takes the ex to court to recover the £5k, if she hasn't got it, he won't get anywhere. Even if she was made bankrupt if she has her own
Mortgage that will come first, then your partner will rank alongside all the other creditors and they all get a share in what's left (if anything).

Thank you ladyemmahamilton. No, she does t have her own mortgage, she rents. She's not bankrupt or anything. She probably can't afford it alongside her own new living costs, but then neither can DP. It just seems so crap she can up and leave and ditch him with the jointly owned property that's worth bugger all and he gets (and me) all the worry and costs and she can move on with her life.

No, sorry my point was that if you sued her for "recovery" of the £5k, part of the process might be to make her bankrupt, but then your partner would be in the same boat as all her other creditors.

Selling seems to be a no go. Her reaction to bearing some of the loss is that she wants nothing to do with it. Fine, so why not just make arrangements for it to be signed over to him entirely for a nominal fee (really nominal, like just costs of drawing up the new deeds or whatever (I am not a lawyer!)). Then, or simultaneously, remortgage as a BTL (may not be easy dueto negative equity but not impossible I think) and enjoy 100% of the rental value until it is no longer in negative equity, then sell.

If she doesn't like the sound of your OH getting all the income and then the 'profit' one day when it sells, then she should be bearing some of the loss as it stands today.

You have a solicitor on this, right? Were they married, if so what did the financial settlement say about the house when they divorced?

Sorry, I missed where you had already mentioned the rental value and the BTL rate. That is a bummer.

If they are both on the mortgage they are both liable for the debt so if your partner doesn't pay it his ex would have to.

Play hardball - get agreement that house is his along with debt associated. Change all the locks and keep all her posessions. Sell her possessions to recover some of the debt - if she goes mental, negotiate

I can't understand though why you are living somewhere else - move into the property and save some costs!

also, if she thinks there is profit in the house, agree to sign off sale value 50-50 on the condition she pays 50% of running costs. I would guess she doesn't know her arse from her elbow financially, so lead her by the nose - he should tell her that there is no way she is getting her hands on the profit on the property and 0% of the rental income if she walks away, tell her she will get 50% of the rental income monthly if she wants to have 50% ownership.

In reality though, 10K negative equity is worth hanging on to - if you move into the house and have ownership and change locks and sell her property (or negotiate she can buy it for £5k) and let out any extra rooms to lodgers you will get some tax relief etc, and may get your costs to equal same.

She can't both walk away and have full access to house.

oOh if it is a joint mortgage, explain the annual loss, PLUS the difference in rental income etc and tell her she is liable and will go under. say that he is happy to take on respoonsibility for the losses if the house ownership is signed over to him for £10K, plus any 50% of payments she has not paid. Say these are the conditions for removing her from the mortgage and liability.

If not a positive response, pay full payments into bank account that can be used to pay in emergency, and let mortgage go into arrears, and pass debt letters on to her. make being involved with no £5K payment a fucking nightmare so she has a strong incentive to cave.

Do it in writing with a massively reasonable tone and copy to solicitor etc. Any court will appreciate 'reasonableness'

Thank you worried Betty. I will show DP your posts as he knows much more about it all than me. Lots of advice there, thankyou!

We can't live there unfortunately. It's just not big enough for us all
(my kids and his), plus I hate it as so much negativitiy associated with it now (sounds daft I know).

So basically make her realise she either pays half of running costs, decoration, rental top up to pay buy to let mortage etc or had of costs to sell and half of "shortfall" OR she hands it all over to him and has no costs but no benefits if it does make money.

Its gone up in value 6k since Dec last year so DP reckon. A few years and it should be up to the mortgage value. I suppose it could be an asset for our family in the future.

Don't forget that tax is payable on any rental income.

Poo, tax on rental income. We didn't think about that. Even more of a loss then!

If only it were a nice big house and we could all live there! :)

Tax is only paid on profit. Deduct from income mortgage income and building insurance (and letting agents fees if any). Speak to an accountnant to see what else can be deducted.

Speak to your mortgage provider, most will allow you 12 months renting the property out without changing the mortgage to BTL which would make a huge difference for you presumably. Hopefully the value would increase in that time anyway and you could sell after the year was up :)

Does she pay any child maintenance? If not, get the CSA on to her - that could increase your income, and perhaps make up for the shortfall.