Told h we were divorcing last night, he's taken car keys and I need help re what are my rights

[Netcurtainstwitching]

Long story short...

He has threatened to hit me once
Burned mine and the childrens possesions on two occasions
Spoken to me in a way that made me feel threatened/not safe a number of times over past few months.

I'm not whiter than white, he doesn't like the lack of housework, the tea not being on the table when he comes in, my pets, lack of disapline with the children (his opinion). Hes a real catch!

So asked to separate on 21 june...he refused to move out. I told him I was sorry last night but we were going to get a divorce.

Today he has taken the car keys. Slight problem as we live in a village. School is by car to next village. I did ring and check with him (incase they had dropped somewhere or were in his pocket) he has taken them as he cannot afford for me to run the car in the future so I may as well get used to not having one. And he needs to talk to me tonight about other things too.

Now I have seen a solicitor a couple of weeks ago, she doesn't do legal aid. I am not on benefits yet, he earns a lot of money (which he keeps in a savings acct only he has access too). I get housekeeping once a month for all bills and food etc just not the car.

We own the house.

There is nothing I can do is there? Just wait for the outcome of the financial side of the divorce?

Worried he will empty his account of savings. I do have photocopies of current bank statements of our savings. Anything else I can do to protect financial assets?

Any help appriciated

TIA

okay, solicitor I was looking at for legal aid is a member of resolution, so is h solicitor

Yes can ask for lifts. Unfortunately the local auth is a twat and even though this is our nearest school we are not in their catchment area real bugbear with me.

I am nervous but he has never done anything to hurt us or threatened the children, just me once.

Will get solicitors to look at finances asap have bank statements

Xenia...h and I went down the sahm route. So no, no job, no money, I had the luxury of choosing to be with my children...some do not. Despite him acting like a prat I am giving him the benefit of the doubt...he has had a huge blow to his self confidence/ego and is looking to lose his house and regular access to his children (no I do NOT intend to block access...just that inevitably he will see them less than if we lived together). I am not without sympathy for him despite the threats and burning of very treasured possessions. I must be a right mug. And I did not outearn him and never was likely too, he is self employed in family business. Would you like to pat me on the head anymore or is this enough for you?

Thank you mumblechums, will see if i can get it moved. Have his bank statements photocopies to pass on. And his tax codes letter thing...

Thanks mumsnet...that was fast!

www.womensaid.org.uk/landing_page.asp?section=000100010008&sectionTitle=If+you+or+a+friend+need+help

Family business. Okay do you know in whose names the shares are owned and are any in your name? Sometimes a very wealth family has a son working in it but the son deliberately is set up to own none of the shares so that if he divorces his wife does not get a penny of it. Also are you on the board of directors or just him? Is he paid a salary from the company (with NI/tax taken off and have you seen copies of his P60 forms each year and pay slips_) or is he just paid dividends? What percentage of the company's shares does he own if any? Do you know what debts he has? Is the house in joint names? Are there any mortgages on tho house? What credit card debts do you each have and other personal loans?

Thanks Julia

Thank you Xenia.

I think shares will be in his, mil and fil names
As far as I know we just talked about putting me on board of directors, know he and mil and fil are
As far as I know each of them takes a third of the profits. His mother keeps all paperwork. I sometimes see the tax form to say what tax group he is in?
Percentage of shares...not sure
No debts I know of
House in joint names
house owned outright
No credit card debts or loans

No more info about the business, his mother doesn't even let him look at the paperwork. Know it goes through an accountant.

Okay so now this afternoon go on a website www.companieshouse.gov.uk. Look up the name of the company or companies if more than one. Then order with a credit card on line the latest documents for all the relevant companies - it just costs about £4 or so. You then get a link to accounts, annual return etc and it shows who the directors are of each company, who are shown as shareholders, what turnover the companies made. They may have kept all the shares in the name of his parents so you have no claim on the business when you divorce. Then on divorce they ensdure his income is virtually zero so you get % of virtually nothing and no share of the company. It is very easily done which is why I woudl also recommend you try to go for most of the house equity on the divorce. Presumably you woudl rather stay in the unmortgaged house so one option is that you keep the house and he keeps the company and his pensions and you have a clean break. you might though need to get a job.
Are there any other things like shares or other properties?

If instead you split the house50.50 and one of you buys the other out then you might get maintenance from him too rather than a clean break on the divorce - clean breaks means neither you nor him pay regular sums to the other and you both live on your own earnings or in your case tax credits, child benefit and any earnings you can make. If that is untenable you woudl be better with some maintenance but less of the house which might have to be sold, but that maintenance is usually temporary until you can get on your feet and find a full time job again and perhaps retrain. The payments usually stop when you remarry or cohabit even if the person you end up with is unemployed and lives in your place

hi was in your situation 2 years ago .`could you talk to him and explain for the sake of the kids you would like to keep things amicable as possible.ask him not to punish the children by punishing you.the inconvience of catching a bus to school will upset them for the school day they have enouhg upset with muummy and daddy splitting.i have seen this lots at school and a few years after a divorce parents are meeting up at sports day xmas plays being civil for their childrens sake.tell him your child will be proud and think he is a wonderful dad in20 years if he is right with you and child. think of your child s future do not mentally scar them for a couple of years also it could cause them relationship probs -not respecting .chilren learn from their parents agree with him not to bad mouth each other and treat each other with respect INFRONT OF KIDS.see a legal aid sol one in armthorpe.

if he refuses to treat you and your children right you could take court action with legal aid .see solictor for advice.all the best xxxx if you would like to chat please let me kno.x

ps tke photo copies of bank account,pensions,wage slips etc x

Xenia you star. Downloaded 12 docs in the end, annual accounts for last 3 years. The bank statements are on the top shelf in kitchen. Will share info with solicitor unless you have any more advice or questions? Don't want to waste your time :)

Thanks for caring Lizsarah :) spoke to him tonight...he's not in amicable mood right now! Being a bit of a bastard actually but he's not had time to calm down and really think things through yet, sure he will start thinking of children soon...I hope.

Thanks Babybarrister

Spoke to him tonight, took notes...creeped him out if nothing else and gave me solid proof of what he said (he likes to turn things round and twist words)

Basically he's going to employ someone else on his wages so there is less money.

I cannot use the car again as he doesn't want someones future girlfriend driving round in his car (sweetly pointed out he had put me off men for life...only point I scored...I know should not have said it in hindsight...)

Due to frivioulous nature of what I am doing will probably get no benefits.

When I pointed out I need the car to get the children to school/preschool he said he did not give a fuck where they went, the nitty gritty was up to me, my children my responsibility.

He was not going to babysit anymore. Ie sit with children while I walk dogs or put them to bed.

He wants to speak to eldest (not 3 year old) about what is happening re him having to move out and divorce as I would get my chance to put a 'spin' on it later as I would be spending more time with them than him in future.

Told me there is no point going to solicitors until he knows about is finances...

Pretty much it...

Have wine.

Assuming it is a limited company, this website will tell you who the directors are for free, but for shareholdings and accounts you need to go to the Companies House website, as Xenia says: companycheck.co.uk/

h is a shareholder...£1 each but there are not many assets in the business.

well I have just over a week to sort out school.

I would take what you can. that case Immerman the court said if you are the type of family who share everything as many of us are (we always had joint accounts for everything, I did both our tax returns, both had passwords to everything) ior he leaves things hanging around then couples are entirely free to look at those documents.

If instead your spouse locks things away then yes you are not supposed to break into computers and things but obviously you can do what I said - public search at companies house. Also I think in Immerman when these things were done instead of the court saying - okay it all gioes back to the husband it was given to his lawyer to check against what the husband later said his income etc was so I would argue it was partly a win for the wife/her family who did the digging around.

I sometimes think before marriage everyone should issue their daughter or son in law with a checklist of questions or their future spouse should so they have total disclosure about each other, their views on things like abortion, women working when they have babies, whether elderly parents will live with you, who has what pensions, will you share money, will you keep information about your income under lock and key, would you share a lottery win with a spouse etc so you k now it all very clearly before marriage. So many people concentrate on the dress and the ring and the wedding cake and don't find out even the most basic things about their spouse's finances or even views on topics like breastfeeding and abortionand if the baby will be circumcised.

Xenia Tue 28-Aug-12 18:31:59
I sometimes think before marriage everyone should issue their daughter or son in law with a checklist of questions or their future spouse should so they have total disclosure about each other, their views on things like abortion, women working when they have babies, whether elderly parents will live with you, who has what pensions, will you share money, will you keep information about your income under lock and key, would you share a lottery win with a spouse etc so you k now it all very clearly before marriage. So many people concentrate on the dress and the ring and the wedding cake and don't find out even the most basic things about their spouse's finances or even views on topics like breastfeeding and abortionand if the baby will be circumcised.

This.
+1

First time I wish I could "Favorite(sic)" a post

Thanks. There was list in the Times of 20 questions a rabbi asks couples to answer along similar lines. Very sensible chap. I certainly will try to make sure my children can answer basic stuff like that.

It sounds to me that on this thread the husband works in the family businses and his mother probably just does not even tell him what is going on never mind her daughter in law. Also couples really do differ an awful lot and some are genuinely uninterested in money. Others the housewife does all that side of it and knows everything and part of their role as non working spouse is the choose the ISAs, pick the pensions, take his money and do everything to do with admin related to it. You can't generalise and some people weant load of privacy which is what makes that Immerman case fascinating readnig.
It is correct - a couple should be able to choose their level of privacy in a marriage - you could see everything - we always opened each other's post, I did our tax returns, everything was joint, total openess. Others are very secretive, do not even tell the other what they earn. I have had dates with men who have shown off about how they have hidden money abroad from their wives and they think that is going to make me want them. Look how clever I am about dodging my responsibilities to my children.. it's not very attractive in my view.

In this case the brothers law were searching the computers of their brother in law who had said if we divorce she won't get the money and I will hide it. The brother in law used his sister's brothers' office premises and their computers so in a sense they were only searching their own computers but found to be in the wrong. Within a marital home if you both open the post of each other and you both leave things hanging around (I certainly never rushed to hide a bank statement etc) then you can copy anything you like on a divorce. If instead yo had hve a very hidden private marriage from each other then you need to be very careful before you take stuff although even then it may be best to know the information but take advice.
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2010/908.html

Thank you Xenia. Guessing you see this alot... Yes to checklist...wedding was actually 2 witnesses and casual dress!! We had our abusive families in common. At the moment he seems to be making an unholy alliance with his mother and my mother and sister. Anyway back to money...h stuff is freely available, he has always said I could open his mail, tend not to as a rule but some things I do, such as his savings bank acct.

Just waiting for next solicitors appt now. This sounds greedy, but...bear with me...to get to school and pre school we either take the car, or the bus. Taking the bus means getting to school a full hour before it starts or 20 minutes after classes have started. Its either that or I change them to a big school in town. I know beggers can't be choosers. The alternative is to get a job but after being out of work 6 years I've no confidence and find the whole idea scary, job interviews scare me...I'm going to have to face up to this one...

It certainly might be worth trying to get a job. You are probably better than you think at things. There is a women entrepreneur's thread and women who earn £1000 a day thread going on mumsnet at present.

Could you link for me please? I would love not to have an employer, I hate being told what to do...which makes it stressful to work! Background was how my mother and sister treated me as a child. If I could earn enough to run the car that would be great. Girls could stay at school/pre school, would give us some freedom to get out of village.

This is the active one.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/freelancers/1545649-Who-wants-to-be-an-entrepreneur-Start-here-and-those-who-are-help-here-please

The £1000 a month which became hang on a lot of us earn £1k a day do not set your sights too low has stopped being active but worth reading.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/freelancers/1538634-How-might-I-earn-1000-a-month-working-from-home

You really do need to speak to your lawyer about it though as if you earn more you will get less (assuming the husband is unable to hide his income or reduce it to £1k a year dividends).

Applauds Xenia.

In case you haven't already found these links/info:

Relationship Breakdown and Divorce ? Advice and Links

General

Read everything you can get your hands on. Get familiar with the language of family law and procedure and try to get an understanding of your rights BEFORE you see a solicitor. Get word of mouth recommendations for family lawyers in your area if possible. If you have children at school, ask mums you are friendly with if they know of anyone who can make a recommendation in your area. These days there are few people who don?t know of anyone who has been through a divorce or separation ? there?s a lot of knowledge and support out there!

If there are children involved, their interests will always come first. It is the children?s right to maintain a meaningful relationship with the non-resident parent (NRP) ? not the other way around. Children are not possessions to be ?fairly? divided between separating parents. Parents have no rights, only responsibilities. A divorce will not be granted where children are involved unless there are agreed arrangements for finance, and care of the children (?Statement of Arrangements for Children?). It is obviously quicker and cheaper if this can be agreed but if there is no agreement, the Court will make an Order (?Residence and Contact? regarding children, ?Financial Order? or ?Ancillary Relief? in the case of Finance)

Many family lawyers will offer the first half hour consultation free. Make use of this. Don?t just stick with the first lawyer you find ? shop around and find someone you feel comfortable with. You may be in for a long haul, so it helps if you can find a solicitor you?re happy with.

If you can?t find any local recommendations, always see a solicitor who specialises in Family Law. You can search by area here:

www.resolution.org.uk/

You can also find family law solicitors here:

www.lawsociety.org.uk/areasoflaw/view=areasoflawdetails.law?AREAOFLAW=Family%20law&AREAOFLAWID=36

Check your eligibility for Legal Aid here:

legalaidcalculator.justice.gov.uk/calculators/eligiCalc?execution=e1s1

Some family law solicitors publish online feedback from clients ? Google solicitors to see if any recommendations or feedback exists.

Mediation

You will be encouraged to attend mediation. If there has been violence or emotional abuse, discuss this with your solicitor first. Always get legal advice, or at the very least make sure you are aware of your legal rights, before you begin mediation.

Married or Living Together?

This is a key question. If you are married, generally speaking you have greater protection when a relationship breaks down.

Legal Issues around marriage/cohabitation and relationship breakdown are explained here:

www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/relationships_e/relationships_living_together_marriage_and_civil_partnership_e/living_together_and_marriage_legal_differences.htm#Ending_a_relationship

static.advicenow.org.uk/files/benefits-and-livingtogether-2010-11-1161.pdf

DirectGov advice on divorce, separation and relationship breakdown:
www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Divorceseparationandrelationshipbreakdown/index.htm

Legal Rights are further explained here:

www.rightsofwomen.org.uk/legal.php#children_relationship_breakdown

I found these guides from law firms quite informative and easy to read ? there are others of course:

www.family-lawfirm.co.uk/uploaded/documents/Surviving-Family-Conflict-and-Divorce---2nd-edition.pdf

www.terry.co.uk/hindex.html

Finance

Before you see a family law solicitor, get hold of every single piece of financial information you can, and take copies. Wage slips, P60s, tax returns, employment contracts, pensions and other statements ? savings, current account and mortgages, deeds, rental leases, utility bills, council tax bills, credit statements. Are there joint assets such as a home, pensions, savings, shares?

Handy tax credits calculator:

taxcredits.hmrc.gov.uk/Qualify/DIQHousehold.aspx

Handy 5 Minute benefit check, tax and housing benefit calculators:

www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/

Child Maintenance Calculator:

taxcredits.hmrc.gov.uk/Qualify/DIQHousehold.aspx

Further advice and support

www.maypole.org.uk/

www.womensaid.org.uk/

www.gingerbread.org.uk/

england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/families_and_relationships
(Re Shelter, if you are not in England follow the link at the top)

(Thanks izzy)