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Advice re property bounday fence/patio encroachment

12 replies

gillybean2 · 30/06/2012 17:35

My neighbour has had a new patio laid today. I have come home to find that the patio actually overlaps my boundary by about .5 to 1 inches.

Now this may not sound like a lot, but the patio has been laid on a raised bed of concrete and the slabs placed on top which means I won't be able to remove and/or replace my fence panels or replace the gate in the same places, it is currently removed awaiting repair) as the paving slabs are sticking out over the gap.

The fence panels and posts are mine and therefore these mark the boundary and are completely on my side. So if I point out that the slabs should not extend past the fence posts (they have been cut to go around them) can I ask her to get them cut them back to be level with the fence posts.

Neighbour is out at the moment, left as we arrived, so the slabs are drying into position as we wait for her return...

I am seriously tempted to go and lift them myself and ask her to fix them but we're not on the best of terms as is. What are my rights here.

OP posts:
CaroleService · 30/06/2012 20:53

Angle grinder should sort it. I had my patio slabs trimmed cos I wanted to make a flower bed, it worked fine. She doesn't have to lift them. Stick to your guns if it bothers you.

discrete · 30/06/2012 20:56

Don't lift them, it's a much bigger job to relay than to trim.

They probably are not even aware it was done, and trimming when you want to put your fence back up is the simplest solution all round.

babybarrister · 30/06/2012 20:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

gillybean2 · 30/06/2012 23:29

So can I insists she gets them sorted now? I don't want to be paying out for it when I need to get the fence replaced (which will probably be in the next 12 months).

The added complication is that she has a gas pipe running from her calor gas bottles along the edge of the garden (too close to my fence imo but on her side so I've not commented). This means an angle grinder near the gas pipe is going to be tricky!

I have had a closer look now and the fence panels won't budge as the concrete has been slapped on haphazardly and is all over the panel bases cementing them in place. I also noticed that she's screwed her gas pipes to my fence posts Hmm

I've avoided the discussion tonight, but I want to speak to her asap. She already says I'm 'difficult' because of various issues. I don't believe I'm difficult, I've bitten my tongue on many issues, but I have had to draw the line at some things, like trespassing on my property and damaging my fence and breaking the regulations re noisy work at 7am on a sunday as well as flagrent disregard for third party wall regulations. So I already know she's going to rant away at me no matter how I phrase it...

I'm tempted to tell her that she'll have to put her own gate up on her side now as I can't now replace it with the paving slabs overlapping my boundary. She wouldn't actually be able too because of where her gas pipes are!

OP posts:
gillybean2 · 01/07/2012 08:41

I'm even more hacked off this morning now I've realised that on the opposite side the patio is straight, and has been laid straight along the fence post inner edge and not cut around the posts. That is her fence and posts on that side.

I feel like her son (who laid it) had been delibertely provocative again in doing it this way. They must have spent ages deliberatley cutting the stones to go around the fence posts on my side! Angry

OP posts:
Fizzylemonade · 01/07/2012 16:08

You probably already know about this website but I'll point you in their direction www.gardenlaw.co.uk have a look at their forums for boundaries etc.

It should give some more advice on how to deal with this, MN is great BTW Grin but I found that site very .... enlightening Grin the lengths people go to to spite their neighbours

discrete · 01/07/2012 19:03

Don't get too wound up, gilly, it's more likely they started laying on the other side and then got to your side and went woops! and cut it to fit. Her son may not even be aware of where the boundary line is.

Talk to her first, then get pissed off if necessary.

gillybean2 · 01/08/2012 19:52

Hi guys

Sorry to take so long to come back to this. I wasn't aware of that website and have been doing a lot of reading, asking advice of others, and gritting my teeth waiting for her to fix it without being asked while deciding what issues need fixing and what I'll put up with and ignore while knowing she's taking liberties. I've also been hoping she'd realise there was a problem and fix it without needing to be asked (I know I was in cloud cuckooland there but was hoping to avoid the expected aggression from her).

Long and short of it is that her son came over at the weekend, and didn't touch the patio, but did fix some other things. So I bit the bullet tonight and knocked on the door to ask when it would be sorted and started to explain that I couldn't maintain or repair my fence with how it has been left currently...

She immediately asked if I was getting the fence fixed as some of the panels need fixing. (This is partly true but all the panels are upright and in place currently and I am short on money so hoping they will last another year or two.)

I explained that I wasn't able to repair or maintain my fence currently because of the patio overlap and cement piled up all over the base of the panels but no I wasn't planning on replacing the panels just yet.

She then deflected saying when was the gate being fixed and she was getting a new dog so I better get it sorted.

I explained that I couldn't get the gate replaced now because of the patio overlap and asked why they had cut the patio slabs around my posts rather than making them flat along like they had the other side. She didn't have much of an answer saying that maybe they thought it looked nicer and then went back on about getting another dog and the gate.

So I pointed out that I wasn't actually obliged to have a gate there at all and that if she wanted to put her own gate up, on her side, that was fine with me. But either way I couldn't replace the existing gate now because of the patio overlap.

She said her son is coming at the weekend and will sort it and I need to tell him. I asked what time as we'll be out part of the day and as we are out most of the morning I tried to list out what needed doing but she just got more and more irrate, slammmed the door in my face telling me I was 'difficult about everything' and then went on to swear loudly indoors. So I said loudly outside the door that if she prefered I could get my solicitor to write to her instead before going back indoors.

She then went on to have an enormous moan on the phone to someone about it (her back door and mine were both open and I was cooking dinner so I could her raised voice and swearing but avoided the temptation to go outside so I could hear what she was actually saying.

I really don't want to talk to her son on Saturday. He is rude, intimidating and refuses in the past to acknowledge he has done anything incorrectly and ended up yelling at me till his mother told him to go indoors and she would sort it (this was when they started noisy work at 7am on a sunday and denied it was against the regulations until I had the council's info pages on the matter in my hand).

Her son will also most likely turn up with several other family members and I don't want to be talking to him/them as a single woman on my own with no-one around to verify what was said should he get aggressive and abusive (again). Especially as my neighbour has said she won't be there.

So my question is - should I:

  1. Write my neighbour a note listing the items that need fixing and asking her to pass it to her son?
  2. Get a solicitor to write so she knows I'm serious and won't put up with being bullied any more?
  3. Attempt to speak to her son, knowing it will more than likely end up with him yelling at me and being abusive...?

Thanks

OP posts:
MousyMouse · 02/08/2012 09:47

write yourself first and send it recorded delivery so you have proof. give her a reasonable amount of time to fix (two weeks?).

do you have her email adress? if so follow up every conversation with a quick email 'as discussed today...' so that you have a "paper trail".

gillybean2 · 04/08/2012 12:40

Didn't have time to organise a recorded delivery letter. Neigbour knocked this morning saying son was there and acting nice as pie but of course started off saying that my tree was hanging over their garden and they'd be cutting it back. Absolutely fine says I, just put the branches over the fence and I'll deal with them.

I pointed out the concrete piled all over the base of my fence and showed them the gate post won't go back and where the patio needs trimming, so son said he'd fix it today. All seemed fine until neighbour started on about how difficult I was and how she just wants an easy life and how she's not noisy and I could have a far worse neighbour like the difficult one she's got blah blah...

So I made it clear the fence belongs to me, as do the posts, that it is on my side of the boundary and told her what the regulations are including the fact she shouldn't paint, lean things or attach things to my fence. I told her I felt she was a bully and that the regulations are there to protect me and perhaps if she read up on the regulations she'd understand my point of view. She said I was the bully and her son son started at me and swore, which I requested he not do again.

Anyhow she said she'd get him to cut the patio back and remove the concrete but it wouldn't be today. I said he needed to cut the patio back level all the way along, remove the excess concrete and that the gas pipe needed to be removed from my posts too. 'I'm not doing that she says, where else is my pipe meant to go?'. On your side is what I replied. It won't be today she repeats but her son steps in again and says he will cut it back at the gate today and remove the concrete while she carrys on telling me I'm so difficult.

We're all getting irrate now so I walked away with them shouting and her yelling that this was the last work that she was having done and I went indoors and shut the back door while replying 'excellent' to her as I went.

So the grinder starts up eventually and I assume he's fixing the overhang at least. Happy with that I picked up the phone to call the guy I had asked to fix the gate but it goes to answerphone just as neighbour knocks on door again.

She says can I check it as he's cut it back. Not entirely straight, but enough for the gate post to fit back in position when I put it in place, so I say that's fine. He's not done any of the other things as yet.

Son then gets his string out and says they've measured down the garden and my fence panels are bowed and on their side and if I'm going to be difficult about 40 mm they're going to do the same. So he shows me which panels are a problem, I suggested they simply push them back and put a brick or stake their side to stop them bowing. I pointed out that wood wasn't permanent and could be moved while the concrete patio couldn't be pushed back. I've cut it back now he says. Yes that's great says I, and pinted out that I had to wait for them to do it and couldn't fix the gate till they had. POinted out that they can push the panels back from their side, but I can't do it from my side.

You need to replace them they say. I reply I'm not replacing them now and if they don't want to push them back then tell me which panels they'd like me to remove and I'll do that. But you'll have to replace the removed ones they say. No I don't I reply.
So they went to the shed to find stakes to push them back saying the panels will break when they push them. He gave the weakest pannel (which was damaged when he removed it last year without my permission) an almighty shove but it didn't break, much as he'd like it to have I think.

I go back in doors and could then hear him chipping the concrete but he's started with the grinder now so I'm sure he figured out that removing the concrete isn't enough to lift the panels and it did need cutting back like I had asked.

Although I'm not happy about the gas pipe being attached to my posts I had previously decided it wasn't something I was going to argue over after discussions with a friend. However I did mention it this morning, partly to show them how they expected to do as they like and expected me to put up with it and also make it clear that I knew the regulations while they clearly were ignoring them.

So if they carry on being difficult about the bowing panels I will simply remove all my panels, suggest they put up their own fence and ask them to remove their gas pipe too.

I am fully expecting to find the tree hacked to pieces later, but it will grow back at least.

I wasn't going to insist before but if they want to be difficult and complain about the fence more I don't think I have anything to lose now about insisting they move the gas pipe. What do you reckon?

OP posts:
cansu · 04/08/2012 16:33

i thinkit depends whether you want a very acrimonoius and difficult relationship with your neighbours. Think carefully about this before you persue issues that you are not actually too bothered by. They may start to do the same and you will perhaps regret escalating matters. They sound very unpleasant so I would tread carefully. whilst you might be in the right legally this doesnt mean it wont possibly create more problems than it solves.

Fizzylemonade · 04/08/2012 18:47

I second what cansu says about picking your battles, if they cut back the patio slabs but you allow them to keep their gas pipe where it is then it could all end there.

But, if they then start to be more awkward about other things, you need to remain calm and politely state that if this line of one up manship continues then you have no choice but to ask them to move their gas pipe.

As you have no doubt seen on GardenLaw website neighbour disputes can escalate and go on for decades and home no longer feels like a respite but a prison, you start to be on edge about what those noises are and what they are planning next. If you ever needed to sell who would want to take on your house? Any disputes have to be declared.

The over loud talking on the telephone by your neighbour is a clear sign to me that she feels completely in the right no matter how much the law is on your side it can be an absolute arse to get things rectified legally.

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