Please help - Summer Holiday Access Arrangements

[gingerbiskit]

I have a Contact Order which states that I have to make the children available for contact:

'during the summer holidays for a period which leaves the children with a minimum of 16 days and nights with their mother and such that the time in the care of their father is not in a block in excess of 16 days'.

It is very oddly worded, but the reason for this is that the children had originally been staying with their father every other weekend from Friday evening to Monday morning. I asked for this to be amended, as the children's father lives 27 miles away from us (his choice to move away), and the Monday morning school run every other week was a nightmare.

Their father was awkward and didn't want to lose out on this time (13 hours every other Sunday night - the majority of which the children were sleeping!?) so wanted this lost time to be added to his access arrangements. We were sent out of the court room to try and come to an agreement (with my solicitor and a biased Cafcass officer - see previous posts) about when the children were to spend this extra time with their father. In the little time we were given to do this, he spent most of it shouting at me and complaining and did not try to negotiate. We were called back into court and the judge then made the decision for us.

He decided that the extra week would be added to the summer holidays. We had already decided to split holidays down the middle, so that means that, according to what the judge said, the children are to spend 4 weeks of the summer holidays with their father (2 blocks of 2 weeks) and only 2 weeks with me, their mother. This was the judge's decision, and it is not stated on the order, but this explains why it is worded in such an odd way.

The Contact Order also states:

'The dates and times of school holiday contact is to be agreed between the parties.'

Please can anybody tell me what my rights are here? The decision that the judge made is not actually written in the order. My son is nearly 13 and does not wish to spend 4 weeks of his summer holiday in a different town, 27 miles away. His father has said that he is happy for the children to have friends over, but this is not the same as popping around each other's houses. I am worried that this will alienate the children from their friends.

I made an offer to the children's father: that we have 3 weeks each with the children during the summer holidays, and then the children could have a couple of extra weekends with their father some other time in the year - when he will actually BE there. As it is, when the children are spending these 4 weeks away from home, their father will probably be at work for the majority of the time, which kind of defeats the object!

Their father refused my offer, so I told him that the arrangements above would not work for us. I asked him if he would like to negotiate. Several emails back from him later (with replies that do not relate to this question), I am still awaiting an answer to my question.

My solicitor referred to him as a 'tricky customer'. He always represents himself at court.

Please can anyone throw some light on this?

Thank you.

You don't say how long ago the order was made.

If you think the order is no longer workable you need to apply to the court to vary it. You should ask that Cafcass prepare a wishes and feelings report so that the judge is aware of your son's wishes. At 13 those wishes are important.

Thanks for your reply. The order was made on 1st May 2012.

We have had a bad experience with Cafcass - they tried to cover up a vitally important letter that my son had written. As it was, my son told me that his 'wishes and feelings' letter had been taken away and he had been asked to write another one. I had to phone and ask for a copy of this letter, which hadn't been included in the wishes and feelings report. I made a formal complaint to Cafcass and the officer had to attend court. The judge said that he was not interested in this matter to do with Cafcass and asked my ex if he wanted him to question her, or if he wanted him to make a decision. My ex chose not to have the Cafcass Officer questioned and said he would prefer the judge to make a decision.

If you think Cafcass is the only option, do I have the right to demand a different officer?

Also, it does not actually say what the judge decided (about the 4 weeks) on the order - would he have noted this elsewhere? If so, why not on the order?

Thanks

I haven't seen your original post.

I had presumed that the order was made at the first directions appointment, but it now seems you had a cafcass report. If you didn't like the order you could have appealed it, but you're a bit out of time now.

You don't get to choose which cafcass officer you get.

The order itself seems very unclear. You have a minimum of 16 days. It doesn't say how many days he is to get, unless you've left a bit off.

Sorry - he was told that, based on the school summer holidays being 42 days, he would have 26 days with the children. This is not written in the order either.

The order says I have to make the children available:

'For one week in each of the Christmas and Easter holidays;

For one half-term in its entirety and half of one other half-term;

'during the summer holidays for a period which leaves the children with a minimum of 16 days and nights with their mother and such that the time in the care of their father is not in a block in excess of 16 days'.

So apart from the summer holidays, the rest is split down the middle.

I have never been told how long I have before I can no longer appeal an order. This is the sort of thing I do not like about the system. The information is not stated clearly enough for people to know what their rights are. Thank goodness for these forums and thank you so much for your replies.

bump

So, as my ex would not even go so far as to try to negotiate at the court hearing, the judge decided to make a decision for us over the summer holiday access. My ex thinks it's fine for the children to spend 4 of the 6 week summer holidays at his house which is 27 miles away, which will put a very harsh restriction on the kids as far as when they will get to see their friends (they are 10 and nearly 13). What happens if I refuse to go along with this - it's not actually written on the contact order. Does anyone know? Sorry - it's complicated - please see my posts from earlier today.

Thanks.

You'll probably get in to a great deal of trouble with the judge. That's what. The order will be made tighter, and your attention will be drawn to the warning that you may be sent to prison for breach of the order.

Why not go back to your ex and offer the original contact arrangements.
The Friday to Monday?

He seems annoyed that you unilaterally decided to cut his hours (and it looks like you are doing it again)

Thanks for your replies.

Huansagain - I haven't cut his hours - they are the same, that's why the judge added the extra nights to the summer holidays - because my ex would not negotiate where to put them. I am not trying to reduce his access - I have offered him a suitable alternative (weekends - when he's more likely to be there). I just want the chance to negotiate with him. He's not willing to. And he refused mediation.

We can't go back to the fri - mon contact. It's taken years to change that - it is too disruptive for the children on a school morning. The children don't want to do that - And that's what Cafcass tried to cover up. So they're obviously biased. I feel I just don't have the right to stick up for my own children. Their dad is a verbal abuser. That's not recognised by the court either.

TBH, I think they will have to suck it up this summer & then next year ask to vary the order if they have had a miserable 4 weeks with dad. On the other hand, they might have a great time!!!

BTW, you have already stated your ex won't negociate so forget the emails. I think personally that he may decide he doesn't want them for that 4 weeks anyway once the fighting stops. It's often the way when things get to court. I know so many split parents who have spent a fortune in time & money in court & when (usually the dad) gets his contact it diminishes over time because he has other things in his life.

So cafcass are so obviously biased are they? When they have a coffee break they exchange gossip about which parents they're going to be biased about that particular day? It's easy to dismiss something you don't want to hear as the product of a biased mind, as it means that you avoid dealing with the problem - that someone independent and professional, with no axe to grind, doesn't agree with you, and neither does the judge.

Sounds like you're stuck with what was agreed at the hearing. Your ex isn't obliged to negotiate different hours. And I can kind of understand why since those new arrangements were imposed on you both by the judge after you couldn't agree originally.

reality is their friends will not be there the whole summer they will also be going no holiday visiting relativs etc. so the argumetn of not seeint friends wont wash.

as was said - take i as it is this year. see how it oes.
being bored hanging around making up their own entertainment isnt a bad thing for kids.... or you /dad could send them to summer sports camps etc to relieve boredom

the idea that they will be alienated from friends by being away with their dad over the summer holidays sounds a bit nuts to be honest - all they have to do is say "sorri cant make the cinema etc i am with dad that week"
their friends will also be saying "sorry i cant play this week am off to tuscany/benidorm/clacton" etc

The whole system is unfair. Why not split the holiday down the middle? No, I am not going to send my children off to summer camp - what's the point in having children if you want to send them away for the summer. They don't even want to go to their dad's - and what's the point of going through a 'neutral' organisation like Cafcass, when they are biased and try to cover up vital information that my son had written? I don't think it is nuts that the children will be alienated from their friends - they are 10 and 13 and i am cross that the children don't get to have a say in this. Who can I talk to? Who can tell me what my rights are? He is an emotional abuser - does anybody recognise this / know what this means?