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CAFCASS wants and wishes report

12 replies

qash · 21/05/2012 23:01

I am going through an incredibly lengthy and traumatic divorce at the moment (I guess they all are). My 10yr old ds lives with me but sees his dad every weekend and during the week. Initially eh had supervised access for 3 months but he has pushed and pushed the system to this current situation and has demanded over and over that my son has his say with CAFCASS. The judge, having first said it was totally unnecessary, has relented and ordered a wants and wishes report. I am very scared that this will determine the hearings outcome. What is the procedure, what can my son expect, how much power does it have? My son is in awe of eh who has suddenly started playing superdad and I'm very worried that he will say he wants to see him more based on X box games, late nights and fun with dad.

OP posts:
Olympia2012 · 22/05/2012 00:14

With us the cafcass officer asked dc to draw family to see if dad figured on the set up, and gently asked how they felt, did they enjoy visits. Etc. So yes, your ds will have the chance to put his view across, and yes, dc are usually listened to. Especially the older they are.

kittycat68 · 22/05/2012 09:19

not all cafcass officers represent the wishes of the children but more the wishes of the non resident parent. they push for more contact for the non resident parent if thats what they want. its there job.

you are right to be worried if ex is playing superdad ( cos of cafcass report) if your ds says he wants more contact cos of eh curent behaviour they will recommend it .

Cafcass reports are taken most strongly at court this is why ex wanted one done. ex will probably revert to usual behaviour afterwards and you will have a court order in place so be carefull.

whilst it is a lovely thought to belive the court system is there for the best interests of the child experience has shown me that this is certainly notthe case its about evidence at court and the fathers right for contact.

if it means playing suppermum for a few weeks DO IT!

Olympia2012 · 22/05/2012 09:21

Just to add. In my own case cafcass recommended zero contact. And that's what the judge agreed with. The NRP got nothing at all.

Collaborate · 22/05/2012 09:29

CAFCASS aren't going to please everyone. If you have 2 parents who have polar opposite views, there's always one that's going to come away with jaundiced views of the system. So you didn't get your own way? Does that make the system broke, or CAFCASS biased? Maybe some independent professionals simply didn't think what you were proposing was right for your child kittycat. It happens.

kittycat68 · 22/05/2012 10:12

you only have to read other posts on here and there are many as you know collaborate that will say this. I was not talking of getting my own way at court!
the internet in gerneral to is littered with reviews and items of cafcass, calling for them to be disbanded etc unfortunately there is nothing else in place.

For the record here i have had some really good cafcass officers and a couple of really bad ones too. Its just the luck of the draw which you get, cafcass do not have the time or the resorces to look at the cases indepth let alone to actually read the case file half the time.

cafcass job is to promote and move contact forward as you very well know collaborate ( i am not getting at you either as i know you are legal) but independant proffessionals they promote themselves as is not always the case.
Like in all jobs there are good and bad staff and the OP needs to be aware of this cafcass are not allknowing and all seeing! i agree that cafcass arnt always going to please everyone as you say but now having six cafcass officer cos my ex contested every report he didnt like has given me some insight here, and i would also like to point out that i went along with every report they made even if i didnt like some of it!

qash · 22/05/2012 10:23

Thank you everyone, you have all confirmed what I feared and knew deep down. I know eh will get more and everyone but my son knows that eh is doing it for financial gain. It has all been carefully calculated so that he has just enough nights to be counted as an equal parent and as he recently took early retirement and is 'too stressed' to return to work he needs a big pay out from my very recent inheritance. I feel sick every day and doing my best to play super mum whilst still maintaining normal life so that ds remains balanced and secure and doesn't become spoilt brat.
Please tell me it all calms down at some point. 1 year and 6 court cases in, with a 2 day and 3 day hearings scheduled for Autumn....the desire to just give up and do a disappearing act becomes ever more appealing.

OP posts:
3xcookedchips · 22/05/2012 10:46

There seems to be too many references to finances, his and yours - put those to one side and state what your concerns are with your son spending more time with his father?

kittycat68 · 22/05/2012 10:52

qash just remeber one thing children are for life and you are in there for the long haul. it sounds like you are doing a great job with your son, but unfortuately some exh are like this and some drag there children through courts for many years and some dont its hard to say what yours is like.

whilst disappearing sounds lovely in thought cannot practically be done he would be able to track you down.

with most ( but not all men) its done for controll and financial gain and not for the best of the child, but we are just mothers! not professionals but only apparently with grudges to bear and money grabbing! lol! what would we know about whats best for our children! after all men are perfect!

3xcookedchips · 22/05/2012 11:26

And what is your evidence to make that sweeping statement...you can just as easily substitute the word 'men' for 'women' but then I dont have that evidence so wouldnt make that statement.

Disappering really wouldnt be in the interests of your child - not sure if you're saying you would disappear and leave your son with his father.

qash · 22/05/2012 13:24

of course i wouldn't disappear...just having an emotional 24hrs. And yes my son is no. 1 and the single most important thing. I have to keep going for him. My eh did exactly the same with his first wife and 2 eldest children, I saw it happen and know the outcome. I am determined my son won't suffer in the same way.
Thanks for your views

OP posts:
Spaghettihoop · 22/05/2012 20:22

I am not a lawyer so i could be completely off track here. However for what it's worth I understand the desire to get a straight answer about this question and (i think) I see the difficulties a solicitor must have in giving an accurate answer.

I believe the standard answer is that the wishes and feelings of the child will be listened to by the court but in the light of their age and understanding. At 10 a child's views would carry some weight but would not necessarily be definitive. Other aspects are also taken into account as listed in the welfare checklist in the childrens act.

My conclusion when I was in a similar position about cafcass reports was that my solicitor simply couldn't predict which way it would go.

After some thought, further conversations with my solicitor and unproductive internet searching I concluded:

It must very much depend on the issue: ie I think a court would be less likely to allow a 10 year old to completely cut contact or to choose contact where there were risk of significant harm. I also don't think they would allow them to choose something completely impractical or dictate very precise contact patterns at that age. Court orders have to workable. I imagine they may get some weight with regard to the rough amount of time but less so if it is too far away from the status quo or vastly different from a standard sort of pattern ie seeing a nrp only once a month or most days of the week (in the absence of any other major issues). I think.

I think it comes down to cafcass asking them questions about what their interests are, what they like doing at mums or dads, what they like and dislike about current arrangements and roughly what they think about more or less contact. I imagine if they express strong views that are well articulated as to the reasons then that carries more weight than a vague answer with lots of shrugs and don't knows. I imagine a cafcass officer might ask a child what would make contact work better or push a bit more at the reasons a child has if they are asking something a bit more unusual than standard eow and one day a week.

I was once told the court in my area was conservative with regard to contact orders and they tended to not go for shared care arrangements so it must depend on the individual court/judge/cafcass officer too.

Solicitors must have clients who are very sure their child is: very mature/completely knows their own mind/insecure/fooled by the other parent (delete as you wish) but actually is inaccurate about what their child will say to someone independent.

On internet forums you'll just get lots of people whose views are coloured by their own experiences and it's even harder to get enough detail to give an accurate guess.

It's now no longer an issue in my case and I'm sorry you're still in this position op - I think it does improve with time.

We ended up sorting a lot out with mediation so thankfully I never had to put my theories to the test. I would be interested to know if any solicitors think my thoughts are accurate or wildly out though!

kittycat68 · 23/05/2012 10:02

internet forums will give you variuos points of view on each persons view most layers will say that cafcass has an independant point of view so total unbiased but it depends on who you get, what questions are asked of the child, the expeince of the officer and how heavy there case load is. not to mention what judge you get and what area your in there are so many variables here.
as a parent just do what you think is in the best interests of your child and remember a court will need overwhelming evidence to order no contact.
sometimes it is just best to allow the exp so much contact they either cant cope with it all or dont want it call there bluff and sometimes you just have to stand back and watch your child/ children go through hell before anyone will take notice of what you as the mother are saying is tue. But the longer it goes on through the court system the more emotionally damaged children become so think cafefully before you act.

Forums are good for getting different points of view and you must balace this up yourself you are always going to get some comments from a very rigid point of view or comments from people that clearly dont know what there talking about as they havent been through it.
good luck op and try to stay postitive you clearly love your ds very much.

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