Should we go back to court about this?

[TortoiseshellCat]

Posted elsewhere but it was suggested I ask here too, so apologies for the double post.

Sorry this is so long but it's complicated and I want honest opinions please!

DP and his ex-wife have a child together. They divorced when she was 2, and she is now 9. Everything has been extremely bitter and horrid and there remains much hostility and rudeness on the part of his ex.

I was nothing to do with the break up, I didn?t even know him at the time. I get on very well with his DD, she?s a lovely girl.

DP has always paid maintenance, and has tried to see DD as much as possible. In recent years this has been difficult as his work has taken him abroad, but he has written and skyped and phoned (contact is not encouraged from his DDs side).

When DP and his ex divorced, she moved 100 miles away from where they had lived together to be closer to her family. He understood this and went down every other weekend to see DD. Contact was always on the ex wife?s terms and he always picked DD up at the door.

DD has had issues with staying overnight anywhere other than with her mother. So for several years he travelled up and down 100 miles in either direction, every other weekend.

Then we met, and I lived further away still. His job was transferred to near where I lived and worked, and two years later we are about to get married.
We now live 280 miles, 5.5 hours drive, away from his DD. His ex is still insistent that we pick DD up from the door, she won?t even bring her half an hour away to save us an hour?s drive. We are not allowed to have her overnight ? DD has only just had her first successful overnight stay with a friend ? and DD suffers terribly with anxiety, so we do not want to make this worse for her.

But this situation cannot continue. DD is now 9, she?s not a baby anymore, surely there has to be some give and take? Or are we going to have to pick her up from their front door every time? We have to have her back by 5pm on days we do have her, so by the time we have driven there (leaving at 5am) we only see her from 10.30am-5pm, and then on Sunday from 9am to 2pm (giving us time to drive home again).

Would there be any point in us pushing for a more equitable drop off and more access? We?re not even asking for halfway ? just half an hour would be massively appreciated. He?s never had her for Christmas or a holiday or anything, any requests are just met by a flat no.

AIBU to think we?re going to have to go back to court or should we be grateful for what we have? What would the court say?

Sorry about the awful situation you and your DP are in.
when you say about going back to Court, do you mean they have previously been to Court with regards to Contact? If so, what does that order state?

If not, then he needs to think about issuing an application for defined contact. As you say, she is 9, she is not a baby and should be able to have overnight contact with her father and also quality time in the holidays. Has he asked his DD if she would like to stay with him/you?

If the matter goes to Court, then the matter of pick ups and drop offs could also be dealt with. Impossible to second guess what Court would say but I would definitely sound out his DD first before making such an application to make sure it is what she wants. It gets very difficult/sad when a child feels they are in the middle and often they will say what they feel they expected to say or even can be influenced by one parent or the other.

i would say there are two issues here - the anxiety with staying over else where and the distance between the two parents.

I had a child stay over with me who had to go home in the middle of the night at aged 9 but two three years later she is fine sleeping over at friends houses.

I would suggest you find a solution for one problem and leave the other problems for a couple of years.

But others may have better ideas how to tackle the anxiety

Sorry I wasn't clear. There is no defined contact, in the divorce papers it was to be sorted between the two of them as a private arrangement, it's not set. They concluded a fairly acrimonious alimony battle last year (which as far as we know DD wasn't aware of).

DD is very undecided about what she wants, but TBH that's her way. She's unsure of a lot until she's in the situation, but then she loves it once she's there IYSWIM? That happens with everything by the way, food, new experiences, new places to go.

Part of the problem is that she just isn't busy enough, she only does Brownies once a week and so most of the time she's not tired enough to sleep - when we've had her for a day she's going to sleep in the car she's tired! Plenty of fresh air, food and exercise usually does the trick. I do recognise that can be a false situation though, it's easy for us to spend time with her when we're there as we're there to see her, it's not always the case with her mum.

alking things through and generally applying common sense deals with the anxiety - which I have suffered from in the past, I do understand it.

We're not wanting to force her to do anything, hence why we've left it as long as we have, but this can't carry on in the long term.

this can't carry on in the long term

Well probably not, but even if the ex meets you part-way, you are still expecting DD to spend 11 hours in a car travelling to and fro. I think there's a danger she'll start to feel the same way as you after a while!

Is it really so important to have her overnight in your home?

What about finding a nice hotel in nearby with family rooms? It might be better to lead up to the "overnight" idea that way. Holiday Inn is one chain which comes to mind - we had to do a lot of visits to an elderly relative for a while and some of them have really nice pools which were practically empty half the time.

Or a nearby coastal resort where you could have short/weekend breaks together? Many caravan/leisure parks do that kind of short break these days, particularly in the off season, and some have indoor pools etc. That way you can spend some quality time with her without her having to spend hours and hours in a car.

Olgaga, we'd happily do that - we'd rent a cottage or a caravan, we are in no way expecting her to have to do all that travelling every time! Obviously if it was for a week then we could do it, but for a weekend then possibly not.

It's not about having her in our home, it's about moving forward from the fact that we have to pick her up from the doorstep every single time, which was fine when she was younger but frankly is getting a bit ridiculous now.

We're just trying to find a compromise which works for everyone. And we're trying for a family outselves and we really really don't want DSD to be pushed out through distance, we want to start working on this now before that is even a concern.

we are in no way expecting her to have to do all that travelling every time

Leaving aside, for the moment, the willingness of the ex to facilitate this, how far would you say DD would have to travel for it to be an acceptable compromise?

You say just half an hour would be massively appreciated so it doesn't seem as though it's the journey that really bothers you, it's the principle of being forced to pick her up from her home - it's about moving forward from the fact that we have to pick her up from the doorstep every single time

Have you considered whether it is actually worth pushing on that point of principle to save one hour of driving in an 11 hour journey?

It seems to me that if you're going to try for your own family, you are right to start thinking about it now. But it seems to me a journey of that distance is going to cause real problems for both of you whether or not the ex was willing to drive for half an hour to meet you!

DD is now 9, she?s not a baby anymore, surely there has to be some give and take?

I think your DH needs to explore this with the ex, and with DD. On the face of it there's no reason why if DD was willing to she couldn't enjoy some extended time with you both, and in future with her new siblings. But not all children are the same and some aren't at all happy to leave their mums for any length of time until they are much older - especially if it's something she's never had to do in the past.

With such a long journey, I think in practical terms you'd be better off trying to get regular visits for a few days at a time during the school holidays. But it could be a difficult and expensive business to go to court, and it might be better to wait until she's a little older and more confident anyway.

Children change an awful lot once they make the transition to secondary school, and you might find it's a lot easier to pursue it then.

My ex has just taken me to court to try and make me drive halfway and he did not win however, I am still in family home and not the one that moved away. I think it can be enforced but what you need to consider is just how resentful this will make her feel. I was furious that my ex even had the cheek to suggest I drive. I already do pretty much most (all) of the parenting i.e.cooking, cleaning, washing, ironing, taking to groups, swimming lessons, dentist and doctors and to then try and add driving to that was taking the piss in my eyes. No way was I going to spend the very little bit of time I get to myself driving to suit him. Just giving the RP possible point of view.

Happy good to hear, it must have been very stressful for you. Not sure the OP still has an eye on this thread but you are quite right when you talk about the effect on the child, which was largely the point I was trying to make. Let alone the burden on the RP - which you are quite right to point out although the courts do not take this as a priority.

I think the apparent issue in this thread is that the OP does not have children of her own yet, and as we know it's quite a learning curve. One of the first things you learn is not to make assumptions about what will or won't be OK for them based on their age alone - although to be fair to OP she has been very understanding of the DD's anxiety and her experience.

It's such a difficult situation for everyone. I'm pleased it has worked out OK for you.

Yes your whole perspective on things change when you have a child and also when you are the one that has been left. I have seen it from both sides as ex had a daughter from his first wife lets just say I have a bit of a different view now I have a child and he has left me LOL

Hi,

Thanks for your thoughts, I am trying to be as understanding as possible - I have been pitched into this situation and am just trying to do the right thing. It's good to get experiences from all sides. FWIW I have quite a nice relationship with his ex, I am trying desperately to be impartial.

DP and I have decided to not go to court. Instead we will spend the money on moving closer. This will be a big upheaval for me - but I am an adult, DD is a child, and hopefully this will improve the relationship.

We are looking at moving to 1.5 - 2 hours away from DD, so hopefully this will mean we can see her more and help with the travelling issue.

I'm glad things worked out for you Happy.

PS Just to be clear, ex was granted the family home in the divorce settlement, then sold it and moved 3 hours away from it so it's not a clear cut she moved / he moved issue!

I can fully understand your problem and you may get somewhere in court as she did move further away. I can not believe she has the energy to carry on being acrimonious after all this time must be rather boring for all involved and not very helpful for her daughter.

Do you think she might be more willing to let her stay if you are closer? I think it is quite sad that she has never had overnight contact with her dad. I think this would be the one good reason to go to mediation and not necessarily court. Do you think that your DP could suggest mediation to his ex?

Personally, although only split just over 6 months ago, I love it when ex has DS overnight as I get to have fun and a lie in without feeling guilty as his dad has him. Never have understood why RP are reluctant to do overnight contact with NRP.