Contact with my ex and our daughter may be cancelled, what happens next?

[BellaLEL]

To cut a long story short, my 4 year old daughter has been seeing her father at a contact centre now for over a year every other Saturday. During this time he has been a nuisance and seems to struggle to follow simple guidelines. He had been given written warnings regarding a couple of incidents where he's been verbally abusive to volunteers on a number of occasions. The last session he refused to wait the 15 minutes he's meant to after I leave and left straight after contact had finished (thankfully my DD and I were in the toilet at the time).

I have spoken to a lady at the centre today who claims that the manager there is considering cancelling contact.

I'm asking anyone who has either been in this situation or knows how these centres work (as their website does not provide this info) what happens now? Is contact cancelled indefinitely? Or does he now have to refer himself to another centre? Or would he not be allowed contact at any centre given his behaviour?

PS - I am not looking for an argument with any bitter fathers or mothers, advise only please, thank you :D

is there a court order for contact?
if ther eis then you need to go back to court get it changed

if there is no court order then i think contsact would jsut stop but you need written records from the centre as to why .

do you want contact to continue or not?
what does Dd want?
is contact good once he stops upsetting volunteers etc?

With all due respect, I'm not willing to share my story in detail, A. because it's a long one and B. I don't feel comfortable doing so.

However, there is a court order in place which was XP's application. Also, it's 99% certain that contact wouldn't have been allowed to progress outside of a centre at this stage anyway. I'm just wondering what would happen in these circumstances?

Thank you for your reply :D

No need to share anything.
But what happens next will depend on many factors including what dd and you wish to happen.
Eg make it indirect contact only or pursue the contact regardless of his behaviour. If he has some excuse for his behaviour and persuades judge he will do better then judge might say continue ?

Well, you've complied with the terms of the court order by taking DD to the contact centre at the agreed time. The fact that your XP has made such a total arse of himself that the contact centre won't have him there again is his fault, not yours. The court might have agreed that DD should have contact with her father but they haven't agreed that this means her father has a free pass to do what he likes. Check with your solicitor and/or any other support workers involved (I don't wish to pry but it seems likely to me that this man has already behaved badly enough for more than one professional agency to be involved) but I think you would have a reasonable case for stopping direct contact due to his unacceptable behaviour and then the onus will be on him to stop being an arsehole and prove that he can behave sensibly before contact is resumed or increased.

Agree with SGB. It is not your fault that the contact centre are talking about ceasing facilitating contact, it is down to him and his behaviour. The rules are there for a reason.

As it is his application, it is up to him to take it back to court and no doubt the contact centre will be more than happy to explain why they will no longer assist with supervising the contact.

Thank you guys for your comments. Well, I spoke with the manager of the contact centre today and she confirmed that she will be cancelling contact, which includes all of that companies' centres.

My solicitor was quite shocked to hear this as she believes this kind of incident is rare.

This is a major step back though as we were due a final hearing at the end of this month to keep contact at the centre for at least a year to see if he has progressed with regard to his behaviour. Obviously this isn't the case any more.

This has been going on since Oct 2010. Due to XP not addressing his problems this hasn't progressed but is going backwards. CAFCASS and my solicitor do have to try and make contact cases progress but what do you do with someone who doesn't want to? I don't want my DD to keep on having to go to a contact centre for many years to come but, at this moment in time, it's the only place that's safe and relevant.

Thanks again.x

Bella this is not your fault and you shouldn't be getting too upset about this. You have co-operated with the Courts/your ex by taking your DD to the contact centre. It is his fault he has been a twat and as a result of his behaviour, contact will have to cease at the Contact centre. If he cannot follow their relatively simple rules, how are you supposed to continue contact. There was obviously a very good reason for contact being ordered to take place at the centre. The only other option might be supervised contact but is there anyone who would be prepared to supervise it that you would both be happy with, ie mutual friend/family member etc?

Op, we had a contact centre refuse any further involvement too. I think you're right though it does seem rare. My ex sounds like yours. I believe that he will be expected to alter his behaviour.

@ MOSagain, thanks for your message. I couldn't see anyone one of my family members or friends wanting to do this, not to help me but, lets say he's not liked much. If we were to go back to supervised contact at a centre there'll be a social worker present and we are only allowed 5 sessions, which by that time, it should progress to supported contact. So, I'm not sure that'll happen.

@S1eepy, thanks for your message. Given that XP hasn't altered his behaviour one bit (even within a controlled environment) since we were together I doubt very much that he'll want to do so any time soon. I'd like to think he would, for the sake of DD, but he's too selfish unfortunately. Did your ex alter his behaviour? Or is there no contact any more?x

You will not be penalized for stopping contact in these circumstances, because the cause is this arsehole's unacceptable behaviour. Whatever it is he's doing, whether it's becoming violent, verbally abusing contact centre staff, being pissed or drugged up or getting his cock out, behaviour that it's regarded as unacceptable to inflict on adults is also unacceptable to inflict on children.

I should think it's very unlikely that his behaviour will improve, which is hard on your DD. He sounds nuts as though there is something deeply and thoroughly wrong with his thought processes to the extent he seems to believe he can do exactly what he likes. Well, he's wrong.

This happened to a friend of mine. The contact centre was being used while the cafcass report was being drawn up. Back in court, access was withdrawn from the absent parent, due to that parent's behaviour at the contact centre making it clear that they were unable to out their child's needs before there own. I think it was withdrawn for about a year.

We got contact stopped for a year but now back to supported contact. No he hasn't altered his behaviour. He thinks the world owes him a favour and he should be able to behave as he wants, afterall he is the victim here! Due another report now and the kids are getting older. The courts really do give these men alot of chances.
I'm attending the freedom course presently, it's fantastic and really gives me strength. Can't help but think a few judges and magistrates should go on it!!

you cant continue contact can you?
and it is all his fault.
let judge decide what happens next - you mightt think what you and dd want and what is best outcome for DD eg move to indicrect contact till your ex has attended some kind of therapy?

friend in similar sit has seen grandparents get involved - the dad's parents. so child goes to grandparents and dad visits him there - sleeps mostly apparently but child is building good relation with gps and it meets criteria for contact

Tbh, it might be a good thing. It would have been worse if he'd been pretending to be meek and mild and lovely and got moved to unsupervised contact and then reverted to form. Sad for your dd, but it sounds like she might be better off without him.

I agree with the others that it's up to the judge now. Indirect contact might an appropriate next step.

It's a shame his family are all the same because I probably would've gone down the route of DD seeing XP's mum. But she's just as bad. DH and I would really like to have a break from all this anyway, it's become emotionally draining and has effected our finances but worse of all it's becoming difficult for DD :( I feel for her sooo much. Thing is, DH loves her like his own, she has a father figure, she's not being deprived of that and really do believe that in some circumstances, like mine, DD is better off without him. Just a shame that these cases have become too generalised.

Thanks again for all your posts.x

I think there are cases where the courts agree that the man's behaviour is so unacceptable that he is not to be allowed contact with DC because it will be harmful for them to have to spend time with him. As long as you are able to reassure your DD as often as she needs to hear it that it's not her fault and that her father has something badly wrong with him which means he can't be a father to her, and that it's nothing anyone can fix, then she will be fine.

IT's about the lesser of the evils. Any significant harm children may suffer from the behaviour of a parent needs to be weighed against the harm they may suffer if if that parent is cut out of their lives. An alternative to direct contact might be indirect contact (cards, presents, photos etc) so at least children know about their natural parent and have the opportunity to grow up secure about their identity.

@STIDW thank you and I agree. DD currently has telephone contact on the Saturdays she doesn't see her dad. We are thinking that maybe he can call every Saturday if direct contact will not be suggested by the courts or CAFCASS. Whether that'll work, who knows? She's not spoken to him on the phone during the last few calls, she'll answer the phone but is hesitant to talk and always comes to me saying that she doesn't want to speak to him :( We'll see though.

Phone contact is hard for a lot of four year olds with anyone. Few will chat for ages. Skyper might work but is her dad able to be a dad to her with indirect contact or does he display same behaviours which have led to prob in contact centre?

Is a bit skewEd pursuing contact with someone who clearly can't get their act together. She knows who her dad is. but it doesn't make sense to me to keep pursuing contact in this instance merely so she knows even more about his poor behaviour. Cards, etc may indeed be better.