Flexible working allowed for a year now reviewed and turned down :(

[Bitofastate]

Hi

This is for my partner not me but hoping for some guidance. We have 2 children and he asked, over a year ago, for flexible hours in order to take them to school/pick up. He works in a very male dominated factory environment and I think he was the first to ever ask for flexible working (others have it in the office part of the company but not the factory side).

His hours were 8 - 4.30 and 8 - 1.30 on a Friday. He changed them to 9 - 3.30 and 9 - 3.30 on a Friday. He was obviously paid only for the hours worked. This was agreed for a roughly 12 month period and was then for review.

His boss said a few weeks ago that he needed to talk to him about his hours and said that they wanted him to go back to full time. DP offered 8.30 - 4 as a compromise. Boss said would think on it.

Today was called into a meeting with his boss and boss's boss and told that he had to do 8 - 4.30 (1.30 on a Friday). Was told that his 8.30 compromise was no good as his 'late' starts were causing animosity on the shop floor with the other workers (late as in his 9am time not actually late). He has been told to start these new hours from 1st June.

Nothing has ever been in writing.

Any thoughts? Can they do this? What should we do as a next step?

He cannot physically get to work for 8am if he drops the dc off (doesn't open till 8am and his work is 30 mins away). We have no family/friends close enough to do the drop offs 5 days a week. I often leave the house at 6.30am to get to London for the day so can't do them on a permanent basis. Are we stuffed?

Can you use a childminder?

Sorry I now realise you were looking for legal help WRT the flexible working denied but just trying to offer practical advice in case you don't get anywhere with it.

That's ok NickNacks, all suggestions welcome, especially as if there is no way to change employers mind we'll need to sort something out

I don't know how childminders work, would they come and pick up dc and then take them to school for you or do you have to drop them off? (I'm trying to avoid the dc having to be somewhere that early - 7.20 in the morning).

The only thing your husband can do is put in a formal grievance. You might find this Acas guide helpful:

www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1616

Essentially you have the right to ask for it - and the employer should only refuse for sound business reasons. But it's difficult in some workplaces, as you have found.

You would usually have to take them to the CMs house especially at that time. The cm will need to be home to welcome other children plus they usually have their own children to get ready for school.

I have children arrive at 7.30 and they have breakfast teeth and hair done here- they just need to arrive dressed. I do collect one but we walk past his house at the time he needs collecting on way to school so it works for me. Good luck.

He would be allowed 1 formal flex working request each year, so could he not formally apply again and go through the correct process of meetings? That way he will also have the right to appeal if the decision is not the one he wants. There are 7 I think, fair reasons for a business not allowing a flex working request, and I'm not sure the feelings of other employees is one of them...olgaga's link should answer that one.

He's asked them for another meeting and has one scheduled for 9am tomorrow.

Any things you think he should say? I've looked at the link but it appears to deal with requests being turned down but not so much when they were agreed originally if you see what I mean?

None of it has ever been in writing either :(

Wonder if saying this is the current situation just continuing would work? I wonder that because it says on the link that you can't just return to your old hours when you feel like it, so might be same for employer? Although they did say they'd 'revisit' after a year its been going on for far longer than a year.

Could he put in an official request?
You say none of this was ever documented which may make things tricky but I am not sure that 'causing animosity with other workers' is a reason to turn down a request. They can say that the changes would create a problem with the workload of other staff and turn it down for that reason.

they can turn it down for the following reasons:

? burden of additional costs
? detrimental effect on ability to meet customer demand
? inability to reorganise work among existing staff
? inability to recruit additional staff
? detrimental impact on quality
? detrimental impact on performance
? insufficiency of work during the periods the employee proposes to work
? planned structural changes

If his workmates are just feeling pissed off that he is coming in later and leaving earlier, but this doesn't impact on their work then they are being unfair.

If they're just fed up because he seems to be getting "preferential treatment", then it would be reasonable to expect it to be dealt with by his manager, who should explain to them that he is not getting paid for the hours he isn't there.

On the other hand it might be that his flexible hours are impacting on their workload - which is causing resentment.

It might be worth him pointing out that this is only for a short time, while the children are young. It also helps in this situation if he can point to a good performance and attendance record, and tactfully discuss the cost to the business of recruiting and training a replacement.

Thank you both. I'm going to draft up a rough 'speech' for him later and will put it in terms of flexibility, ie he is more than willing to work overnight/saturdays etc when the work is there (it has peaks and troughs) and has done so many times in the past, so they're actually gaining in that they don't pay him when its quiet (as hes not there) but he's willing to come in when its busy. The way he achieves this is by leaving at 3.30, picking the dc up bringing them back here then going back to work at 6/7 and working through the night.

That ^ made sense in my head

I'll be back to try out a speech on you later if you don't mind.

Just drafted this as a aide memoire, what do you think? Would it be ok to tart it up and send as a letter too?

Background - Have a right to request flexible working as a parent to an under 5, did so 14 months ago, it was granted, to be reviewed on a 12 month basis

Have been working reduced hours for over 14 months and it has had no detrimental effect on my work.

Have now been informed this is no longer possible due to 'animosity on the factory floor'. This is very upsetting as it has seemed to work well for both parties up to this point.

Allowing me to work reduced hours means that I can combine family commitments with my job. There is no childcare available at 7.30am and therefore I would find it extremely difficult to get to work by 8am, 30 minutes away from my home.

Benefits to workplace of allowing current flexible working to continue

• Committed employee with strong loyalty to the company and desire to be as flexible to the company as possible e.g. picking up children at home time then returning to work through the night where necessary.

• I am only paid for the hours worked, so in the troughs of work that occur there is a saving to the company (i.e. you're not paying me to stand around).

• When they are peaks, as I understand will be occurring shortly, I am happy to be flexible and work nights/Saturdays as I have done many times in the past.

• No recruitment costs or training new person costs.

• Demonstrating that the firm is a friendly family workplace

• Bringing the factory floor inline with the 'office' where I believe several people work part time hours.

I have suggested that I start at 8.30am every day (rather than my current start time of 9am) and finish at 4.00pm each day (rather than my current finish time of 3.30pm). This would take my working hours to 35.5 as opposed to the standard 37.5, ie a drop of 2 hours per week. I believe this, along with my flexibility in working evenings/nights, would mean there would be no detrimental outcome on quality, performance or ability to meet customer demands. END

That looks fine - I'd only emphasise that this is not intended to be a permanent arrangement, and perhaps offer a review every 3 or 4 months.

Another possible solution may be to get childcare sorted for after school & still do the 9.00 a]starts.

Crossed fingers for you as I think you have put it as well as possible, though I bet the words 'Can't your wife do it?' come up in the conversation! :(

Sounds good op. Olga, surely that is exactly what the ops dh doesn't want.
Btw are the office staff who do have it women?

Well what I mean is to point out that the children won't be small and need this extra care forever. It's a temporary need - a few years in your working life. Presumably he will want to increase his hours (and his wages) as soon as he is able.

Offering regular reviews is simply a way to reassure the employer that there is an ongoing dialogue.

It's about making it easier for them to say yes than no.