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Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

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Original poster

Lettings and rent aaaaah!!!!

24 replies

noddyholder · 09/03/2012 20:18

We are renting a house at the moment. Have just finished 6 month tenancy and are now on a rolling monthly. We got a knock on the door last week and our landlord who is living in thailand had sent his parents to say he hadn't received febs rent and he thought the agents were in trouble. We live close to the agent and sure enough they have shut up shop and gone. We cancelled rent direct debit and agreed to pay the landlord direct until a new agent was appointed. Have just checked bank account and the agent has taken the rent as we didn't cancel in time and it takes 3 days to action. So now we our missing our deposit which although protected wasn't in a ring fenced account plus 1 months rent! Where do we stand if we just say we will stay here for the 2 months rent and another month for the deposit and then go. It is so stressful and I have had enough!

OP posts:

mrspnut · 09/03/2012 20:20

Was it a direct debit or standing order? If it was a direct debit then you are covered by the guarantee and can do a chargeback. If it was a standing order then you are stuffed unfortunately.

Original poster

noddyholder · 09/03/2012 20:23

Yes it was a standing order. My problem now is we are agentless as it were and not keen to sign with a new one we want to move out but we are 3k down and not sure where to turn!

OP posts:

Original poster

noddyholder · 09/03/2012 21:14

bump x

OP posts:

gallicgirl · 09/03/2012 21:38

So you can prove you paid the rent?

If you want to stay and your landlord is willing, you can sign a tenancy direct with him, or even continue the current rolling tenancy I think. There is no legal need for an agent.

I would prove to the landlord that you paid the rent according to his instructions and get him to take it up with the former agent.

No idea about the deposit though. was it in an official protection scheme?

youngermother1 · 09/03/2012 21:59

see this. Deposit has to be protected by landlord or he can be fined 3 times the value. You have not lost the money, just need to be firm. You paid the people he appointed, therefore he has lost the money and needs to honour his commitment to you.

Thanks,

smalltown · 09/03/2012 22:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

noddyholder · 09/03/2012 22:31

I am so stressed with it. The LL has his dad trying to arrange another agent but I don't want to sign with a new agent we now have decided to buy quicker or rent somewhere else! With the money we have paid twice plus the deposit we are 3 months in credit Do you think we would be in breach of our non existent contract if we just said we will stay 3 months and then move out?

OP posts:

gallicgirl · 09/03/2012 22:42

So to be clear....the dodgy agent has cleared off with 2 months rent? February which you didn't know about and March which you didn't manage to stop the standing order in time? The whereabouts of your deposit is also unknown and this is why you think you are £3000 down? ie £1000 per month plus £1000 deposit.

Have you also paid additional money directly to the landlord or his parents?

As I understand it, you are missing your deposit which may or may not be the responsibility of the landlord and it is your landlord that is missing the 2 months' rent. Remember that your landlord employs the agent and I would hope you are not responsible for those losses provided you have paid as instructed which it sounds like you have.

So unless you have since paid £3000 to the landlord, I don't see how you are 3 months in credit. You have paid February and March rent and the landlord will have to chase the agent for this. You could give 1 month notice legally and leave at the end of April. I think you can only use the deposit in lieu of rent for the final month with the permission of the landlord but I am no expert. Normally you would pay for the month's notice and the landlord would reimburse your deposit if there is no damage to pay for.

what does your landlord want you to do?

Original poster

noddyholder · 09/03/2012 23:05

Well the ll is in Thailand. He wants us to sign another agreement with another agent. I have paid the ll one months rent I paid it for march but the agent also took march. I don,tvwant to pay April as we have paid 2k. I wish we hadn,t paid the ll direct but his father came to see us and said thats what he wanted so I cancelled so but wasn,t in time. Also worriedcabout deposit as our ll seems to be skint!

OP posts:

youngermother1 · 10/03/2012 02:39

read section 3.8 of my previous link. If he has not complied with this, then he can be fined. Ensure he knows you know this and do not pay extra

Original poster

noddyholder · 10/03/2012 08:30

Thanks. Off to look now x

OP posts:

Original poster

noddyholder · 10/03/2012 08:41

Have had a look. The agent put the deposit in a scheme which does have it registered for this address. The actually money we paid is gone as the agent never produced any proofmthat the deposits were in a separate account I have spoken to my deposits.co.uk and they say that ultimately the landlord is responsible for it so we are ok there. My problem now is the double rent situation. The landlords dad suggested we cancel payment to agent and pay his son direct but although I deleted agents as payees on account it wasn,t in time to stop the 1k being taken. Meanwhile I paid his son too! I am now thinking he can take the extra 1k as aprils rent and try to recover march from the agent. Think I will go to citizens advice Monday as despite 2 long emails to his son yesterday I have heard nothing back. I am definitely not signing with another agency until this is sorted

OP posts:

oreocrumbs · 11/03/2012 20:36

If the money is in a deposit protection scheme thats where it is. I'm a LL and when I put the money in the scheme it goes out of my account and into theirs. The only info the tenant gets from the company I use is a text message with their log in details as its all done online. There are only a couple of these companies so it wont be hard to track down. No one can take that money out of the account untill they have agreement from LL and tennat.

If the LL or agent (whoever put it in the account) has requested thw money they will text you asking you to log in to confirm it and if you don't reply they write to you at the address and you have a certain amount of time to respond. If you are not in agreement then they hold the money untill LL and tenant have been through a dispute.

Original poster

noddyholder · 11/03/2012 22:39

Oreo that is not the case for my deposits.co.uk they allow the agent to retain the money in a separate account and they just have a record of it. If the agentbgoes bust the landlord is liable. V cheap scheme and ultimately no good for landlord. Have a look at their website

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plutocrap · 11/03/2012 22:40

You have upheld your side of the contract, by paying rent to the LL's designated agent. It is not your fault that the LL didn't catch the problems in time, and it isn't your responsibility, either. It's the LL's responsibility (though not necessarily his fault).

It's up to the LL to sue/chase the agents for their (the agents') breach of contract. In the meantime, they must acknowledge that you have honoured your side of the contract. There is no lost rental payment as far as you are concerned, only as far as the LL is concerned.

Please don't let this LL's amateurishness undermine your rights.

Original poster

noddyholder · 12/03/2012 07:57

Thanks so much I will need all this advice and info today while I try to tackle all this!

OP posts:

xmyboys · 12/03/2012 13:58

Can I add to this question?
We are in a similiar situation however different.
We are the owners.
We signed an agreement with a real estate agent for them to take on full management of our property.
Agency now in financial trouble.
Agency Owes us thousands in rent.
Tenants are in the property -they have agreement with the agent etc (short hold I believe?)
How can I stop this nightmare.
I need the tenants out so I can get someone else in and manage myself.
What rights do these tenants have? (3 individuals on separate agreements)
Can I give them x amount of notice to vacate?
Just don't know where I stand legally as my contract is with the agency but they are in breach??
This is crippling us financially.

Original poster

noddyholder · 12/03/2012 15:07

It is a nightmare I agree! According to my solicitor the landlord is ultimately responsible for everything. You cannot ask the tenants to leave without good reason. It is considered mismanagement of funds by the agent BUT the lanlord is responsible for using that agent. You need to give the tenants their 6 months OR if they have done their 6 months then 2 months plus return their deposit within 14 days or go to court and pay triple! I am in a spin here trying to make sense of it all. You need to chase the agents for the money and tell your tenants to cancel the direct debits.

OP posts:

plutocrap · 12/03/2012 17:23

xmyboys, if your agents are in breach, of course the tenants should be paying you and having their relationship with you. Hasn't your contract with the agent got provisions for terminating the contract with them, or did they leave that out of their terms & conditions?

LIZS · 12/03/2012 17:30

Were agents ARLA or NAEA registered ?

Original poster

noddyholder · 12/03/2012 18:23

How would I know?

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xmyboys · 12/03/2012 18:50

Don't know either will check that out.
That's really scary to think we would be responsible for bonds etc.
We have no contact/contract with the tenants etc the company has a contract with us and they have sourced tenants and signed them up to whatever agreement that may be. I doubt our names appear anywhere in any documentation? (although have not seen any)
Big headache !
Should just sell the bloody thing.

LIZS · 12/03/2012 19:23

Website and paperwork may quote it or I think you can check with the institutions themselves. Members sign up to certain standards and they have complaints procedures, although not sure how well they hold up espeically if the agent has gone kaput.

youngermother1 · 13/03/2012 00:29

xmyboys The tenancy agreement will be between you and the tenant, signed by the agent on your behalf.
You really need legal advice. I would suspect the agent is in breach of contract with you, so you can terminate and deal direct with the tenants

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