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Legal matters

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Original poster

school allowing access by NRP

21 replies

limetimemummy · 27/01/2012 20:24

My DD(6) school allowed contact between her and my exH today during her lunchbreak. I wasn't informed at all (either by exH or the school). exH has PR.

Recently I have very reluctantly had to halt contact due to the sporadic nature of the contact and the significant negative impact this is having on DD. I am trying to get exH to discuss things with me in order to get some regular and frequent contact in place, alas it is like talking to a brick wall at the moment. I have stated all along that DD is available every other weekend but this is not being taken up.

There are no court orders regarding contact in place.

Can a solicitor please help? I was wondering what the legal position of the school is in this situation. Do they have to permit access to the NRP if they ask for it during school hours? Are they supposed to notify me or does that not even register?

Thanks v much in advance

OP posts:

neuroticmumof3 · 27/01/2012 20:35

I think that because he has PR they can't stop him seeing her. I also think he would be able to take her from school if he wanted to. Hopefully someone legally trained will be along to advise you properly.

STIDW · 27/01/2012 21:22

He has Parental Responsibility so unless there is a court order to the contrary he has exactly the same rights to go into school or collect from school as you do. If irregular and inconsistent contact is upsetting your child the correct way to go about it is to apply yourself for an order to regulate contact. However, you need to aware that a contact order will require you to make the child available for contact at certain times and if your ex sometimes is late or doesn't turn up there isn't a lot you can do.

mumblechum1 · 27/01/2012 22:38

So far as your question is concerned, no, the school has no obligation to let you know that your dd's dad has visited her in school, and it's up to them whether they allow him in - I guess that so long as it isn't interrupting lessons, they'd be ok about it.

You have absolutely equal rights re. PR at the moment, but of course if the situation isn't resolved, the court may have to get involved and make a residence/contact order.

olgaga · 27/01/2012 23:05

Does the school know about the background to this? It's wise to keep them informed, but I doubt they have any power to prevent a parent from seeing their child unless it had been established that there was a court order in place preventing him from seeing her.

I'd make an appointment to see the Headteacher if I were you, to explain the situation. They need to know he visited her for contact purposes rather than some emergency, and to thwart your agreed arrangements.

In my view it would be highly irregular for schools to allow children to see their parents for no reason during the lunchtime - although many schools allow children to go home for lunch, they generally expect to know about these arrangements in advance.

For all you know the school may have told him not to make a habit of this. The only way you will know is to make an appointment to discuss the matter with the Head.

HappyMummyOfOne · 28/01/2012 15:40

If he has PR then he has the same rights as you to go to the school and to access records etc.

Why is only every other weekend open to him? Would you be happy with that if the situation was reversed and he was the PWC? I doubt it.

Given you have withdrawn contact, maybe hes not doing it to get back at you but to simply see his child. Your DD has two parents not just one.

Original poster

limetimemummy · 28/01/2012 22:52

Thanks for all your replies :) very much appreciated

Happymummy. I wholeheartedly agree with you, my DD has two parents it is just unfortunate that for the past few years my exH has refused to put his DD's need for a daddy to be a parent in her life before his own need to do his own thing. As far as weekends are concerned contact has been available to him as and when he wants - I was stating every other weekend as a "standard" and it is something I would welcome to get some routine and regular contact for my DD to see her dad. I've spent 4 years trying to implement some sort of regular and frequent contact and have had many sleepless nights over this issue. I only wish he would take me up on the offer to see his DD often and frequently rather than sporadic (gaps of 8/9 weeks sometimes and 1 week others) and last minute requested contact. His exact words have been "but Im tired on a sunday" and "but I have a social life at weekend" as reasons for not seeing his DD. If he was the PWC then you can be sure as anything that I would not be behaving in the way he is - I would be pushing for shared residence :)

STIDW - can I ask a bit more about the order you refer to? The one to regulate contact. I was under the impression that I couldn't do the requesting of a contact order/it couldn't come from me and any contact order had to be requested by my exH. It would be wonderful if this option was available for me to apply for to secure regular access for DD. Would it come under the realm of a specific issue order? or is there another type of order that it is?

I realise that even if the order was in place I couldn't force him to comply but at least I would feel that I had done everything in my capability to try and secure regular contact for my DD.

Thanks v much

OP posts:

ElphabaisWicked · 28/01/2012 22:59

I have recently taken advice on this as have this situation at the after school club I run.

I have been told that there is nothing I can actually do to prevent the NRP from requesting access to their child other than the usual it is disruptive in the middle of a session. RP has requested that I do not allow NRP to take the child but without a court order I have no rights to enforce this.

What I am doing is contacing the RP every time NRP turns up. The first time another member of staff tried to delay NRP whilst I called RP and my CP officer for advice in another room.

STIDW · 29/01/2012 00:44

Either parent can apply for a contact order. The courts won't make an unwilling parent care for a child and any order must make things better for a child. If there is evidence that irregular and inconsistent contact is causing a child emotional harm an order might help establish a routine.

Justw0nder1ng · 29/01/2012 07:47

I'm so sorry to hear your story limetimemummy. He sounds so similar to my ex and it's unfair for people to judge when they don't understand. My ex did similar things and totally alienated the children and now they won't see him.

3xcookedchips · 03/02/2012 03:58

Elpha...given that there is an absence of a court order why are you colluding with the RP to obstruct access by the nrp to the daughter? You will find yourself in a legal minefield if you're not careful...apart from the fact the nrp is an equal parent.

ElphabaisWicked · 04/02/2012 16:38

I am not colluding. The first time it happened I called for advice from my CP specialist as I didn;t know if there was a court order or not and acted accordingly. It is however very disruptive to everyone when NRP turns up in the the middle of a session to speak to his child for 10 mins. I wouldn't be happy if that happened on a regular basis with any child.

RP told me I am liable if anything happens to her child because I let NRP take them but I have been told that isn't the case.

I am caught inthe middle betwwen what both parents are telling me.

3xcookedchips · 11/02/2012 21:42

The fact you are actively delaying the NRP in favour of the RP is an indication of collusion. What if the RP said you weren't to allow contact between the NRP and the child? You could not accept any instruction from the RP unless. Also, you are not an officer of the court nor a member of a law enforcement agency therefore if an order was in place there's still not much you could do other than inform the RP and probably the police if you thought the welfare of the child was at risk. Being an RP doesn not confer upon any special rights other than being a parent. Being an NRP does not remove any rights.

ElphabaisWicked · 12/02/2012 23:21

I repeat, I delayed in order to seek advice on the situation and to ascertain whether there was a court order in place or not. I am a drama teacher not an expert on the law. I am lucky in that the organisation I work for pays for a 24 hour advice hotline.

I don't think it is acceptible to be honest for any parent to disrupt a class in the middle of a session, upset a child then expect the class to simply carry on.

edam · 12/02/2012 23:30

3x - what's all this about 'colludiing'? A drama teacher is faced with a parent attempting to disrupt a lesson for no reason. She has no idea what the situation is. Perfectly correct to seek advice.

The non-resident parent doesn't sound as if he has dd's best interests at heart, either, turning up and upsetting her in the middle of a lesson.

3xcookedchips · 14/02/2012 22:17

A parent wishes to see their child during an after school club. Yes its disruptive, but there is no order in place so fail to see why the RP needs to be informed or necessarily consulted. However, if there is an order then of course get the rp involved but I have to reiterate the labels rp and nrp to not confer lesser or greater rights.

gaelicsheep · 14/02/2012 22:19

He is her father, no?

ElphabaisWicked · 14/02/2012 22:39

Because I didn't know. I am not a legal expert, I didn;t know if there was an order in place and I didn't know what rights either paretn had to refuse the other access etc etc. So I rang my advisor and the RP to find out the info.

Once I had the info I did not deny access. Surely I have the right to inform a RP that their child has been upset whilst in my care. I also have a duty of care to all the other children in the group.

ElphabaisWicked · 14/02/2012 22:40

The RP told me it was my responsibility to ensure the NRP did not take his dd. I sought advice and found that this was not the case. Give me a break will you.

bucketbetty · 14/02/2012 22:55

Turning up at school for a few minutes but he can't spare a few hours at the weekend to spend quality time with his child? I can't understand why anyone would do that, unless of coyrse they wanted an audience. I find this very odd behaviour. If he actually gave a shit then surely he could manage a couple of hours a week for his child. I hear you op! I can understand why you re pissed off. If I were you I would ignore it, let him do what he wants because he will anyway and unfortunately there's very little you can do about it. Don't let it eat you up, I suspect that might be on your exes agenda. Don't give him any of your emotional energy. Unless of course you are worried about the safety of your child. You sound like a lovely mummy.

gaelicsheep · 14/02/2012 22:59

If the school would allow the OP to see her child during lunch break - presumably a right that she would take up if needed and raise objections if not allowed - why should the child's father be any different? The relationship between the OP and her ex is of no concern to the school.

edam · 14/02/2012 23:11

Schools don't usually allow parents in over lunchtime, except where the child has particular needs and it's been agreed in advance. Turning up unannounced when the child is busy and involved in a lesson, even if it's extra-curricular, is decidedly weird and not something a parent should do, except in extreme/emergency circumstances.

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