ANY LAWYERS AROUND PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ohgreatnowwhat]

SIL has been running a pub for a man for approximately two years.

Yesterday night he closed one of his other pubs and arrived at the pub she is living at and running claiming he has come to take over the pub as she has stolen money from him. She has found he has emptied the business account and that there is no money in there. He claims she has taken the money and not paid all the bills. She has paperwork to show all the deposits she has made and any withdrawals she has made too. There are large withdrawals he has made shown and these can be traced as going into his private bank account.

He is refusing to allow her access to any of her possessions and is not allowing the family access to their food and drink in the kitchen. She is not sure what she needs to do for the best. My instincts are for her to leave and not stay there but he is threatening not to allow her to return and therefore she will loose all her possessions and be homeless. She does not have anywhere she can live. We can put her up temporarily but as we are 4 people and a dog already in a small two bed semi we can not put up a family of seven for long.

Any advice especially by lawyers greatly received.

i would call the police for advice - threatening and not allowing family access to food is surely illegal - landlords can't just evict you and nick your stuff without proper procedures.

Thank you for response.

who else can we call? everywhere seems to be shut she will try police again but she can't talk at moment she is in too much of a state we have rug police but they saying she needs to do it we feel so helpless

you could try women's aid if the police are unhelpful- as I'm worried about the threatening and physical emotional abuse things. They have their own legal team who can help, and may be able to offer accommodation.

The number is 0808 2000 247

www.womensaid.org.uk/landing_page.asp?section=000100010008&sectionTitle=If+you+or+a+friend+need+help

you can find local help from the above link.

Hope everyone is safe.

thank you willl try them now

Are CAB open today? Could she try them?

Or actually Shelter might be the way to go. They deal with homelessness and this situation would be covered by their remit I'm sure. I would also call the non-emergency police number to get them to help access her property and I would not leave.

Gosh how awful for your sister. Make sure she keeps copies of all the paperwork needed. This man could be having some sort of episode (the bizarre behaviour, accusations suggest something's not right) and if she feels in any danger she should call 999.

cab are closed police saying it's domestic dispute

Does she have a contract from him for running the pub/tenancy for flat, is she the licensee?

This is not a domestic if she has legal rights to stay and Police need to be pushed to get involved as the children are being illegally made homeless and refused access to food/drink.

Also Council's homeless assessment team in Housing Department may be able to help with emergency accomodation and advice.

It's not domestic it's business and it looks like he has stolen from her. Ring the police and ask to speak to the highest ranking officer in the district and explain that you are reporting a crime/s ie threatening behaviour, theft, fraud etc and you expect it to be dealt with.
How can it be a domestic ? It's a business relationship,

she needs to phone the police.

if i were her, i would go back and if he refuses to allow her access she should phone them there and then. If he is threatening or abusive then 999 would be justified.

this is not a domestic!!

its not a domestic dispute under the definition.

it could be civil, but its certainly not a domestic. Has she left the property?

...not a domestic UNLESS the owner is her husband or partner or family member - is it??? is the landlord a family member op?

She lives there, it is her home.
Whatever else, she has a right to quiet enjoyment of her home.
His actions are almost certainly contrary to the Protection From Eviction Act 1977
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/43/contents
Tell the landlord to leave, and call the police if he does not.

Maybe call them anyway: if he's accusing her of theft, then that would be the appropriate course of action, would it not?
If possible, start recording everything: many phones & MP3 players have a record function.

Do not leave unless you are fearful of your personal safety.

I just saw this bit: "cab are closed police saying it's domestic dispute"

Call them again.

Ask to speak to the Officer in Charge.
Tell them it is not domestic, it is an unlawful eviction contrary to the Protection From Eviction Act 1977.
If they still don't act appropriately, then make a formal complaint then and there.

the police will deal with it based on the level of priority it is given - the first call you make you speak to call handlers, NOT police officers.

if there is an immediate threat to safety then thats one thing, but if she has left the property and is in no immediate danger then the priority will lessen from a police point of view. I cannot see how this is being labelled domestic though - do you mean a civil dispute? remember the police deal with crime, not civil disagreements. The police would get involved to prevent anythng happening then and there, or to investigate a crime that has taken place.

she should really have called them then and there. and if you do it for her its classed as a third party reporting, she really has to do it herself.

Good grief. Your poor sister. Do try Shelter and the advice to call the police again.

Have just spoken to shelter for an hour they say she needs to leave for tonight but but not permanently then when everywhere opens tomorrow she can get lots more advice. police said domestic but may have meant civil but if threats carry on she will ring them again. He is being very underhand and did not clearly explain what he was thinking until just before 1pm today.

If she leaves she may find it harder to regain access, especially if she has no contract/tenancy. The Council can step in to prevent homelessness, call emergency duty housing officer for advice, their number will be on the council website. Do this before she goes anywhere for the night They are on-duty at all times.

there is no emergency out of duty housing in our city which is illegal but unfortunately the case we have tried national databases etc as have homeless charities

Phone another council's for advice then, they are all paid by us the taxpayer :)

have phoned county council an got some basic advice

What did they say?

right plan of action is to stay put tonight her children are all with relatives and she has somebody staying with her. In the morning we have got various agencies to contact. The landlord has agreed to give her a few days to find somewhere but plan is to use that for tonight then tackle each individual point tomorrow one at a time.

Sounds like good advice, as someone else said she must collect all paperwork of the business account/books as evidence. Plus she needs a copy of her employment contract/tenancy agreement if she has one. Also evidence in the form of letters (bank statements, electric bills, council tax etc...) that she has been resident there for last two years. Also bank statements proving that he has been paying her wages for that time too. Obviously passports/personal documents etc... just in case.

She needs to see a solicitor (housing) asap as he is breaking landlord/tenant rights. You can get free advice appointments from some solicitors.

If he wishes to evict her he must give notice in writing or obtain a court order, info here and www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/Privaterenting/Problemsanddisputes/DG_189241 here.

If she doesn't have a written tenancy agreement, she is still a tenant:

If the property is in England or Wales, then it is clear that she is a tenant. The landlord will therefore have to give her an eviction notice, under section 21 of the Housing Act 1988. He can then apply for possession, once the notice period has passed.

This is because: if she is present with the landlord's permission, she is not a squatter. She is a lawful occupier, and thus is either a licencee or a tenant.

If the occupier has exclusive possession of the premises, then a tenancy arises, not a licence. With a landlord who was not living there originally, it will be difficult for him to show that she (or the tenants collectively, if more than one) does not have exclusive possession of the property, since the tenant clearly can't be sharing possession with the landlord.

A tenancy is valid even if it is agreed verbally. As rent is due under the agreement, so the landlord says, then it is a valid tenancy. If there are rent arrears, that is common enough - it does not prevent there being a tenancy.

A shorthold tenancy is valid if created verbally. It will be a periodic tenancy (i.e. no initial fixed term). The period will be a month, if the agreement was for rent to be payable monthly.

A verbal tenancy can't be ended under section 8 of the 1988 Act, so the existence of rent arrears is not a ground for possession either. To obtain possession the landlord would have to give a section 21 notice.

If she has done what he has said she has (his reason for the eviction, which of course she hasn't) then why hasn't he called the Police? The court will ask this question too if he tries to use as an excuse.

ZhenTheHallsWithBoughsOfHolly thank you for all your advice will update tomorrow

Bit more advice, spoke to my DH (ex-housing officer for Local Authority).

Basically he has said that she is a lawful occupier i.e. tenant. If she was sole occupier/tenant (i.e. he didn't have a room at that property that he used during the two years) then him arriving with no notice and agreement from her breaks landlord tenant rules. In fact it constitutes harrassment, if she is not happy with him being there and he refuses to leave. Local Authorities can prosecute landlords under Protection from Eviction Act see here.

If the above is so and she has called the Police, then she needs to speak to the Officer in Charge of the station (generally an Inspector) and explain that if nothing is done she will be forced to make a complaint. To make the complaint she will require the CAD number from her initial call to the Police as that is evidence of what was said in the conversation. As soon as she has her complaint number from the Police she should go straight to a housing solicitor and she will get legal aid as she is no longer employed and it is an eviction case.

If it was a verbal agreement and she was paying rent whether she was managing the pub or not should not affect that agreement.

Even if at the end of all of this he has the right to evict her, she still has to be given notice and he doesn't have the right to come to the property and stop her from accessing her amentities. He has to to court if there is a dispute, the eviction will be illegal and he will be in a lot of trouble and could be made to pay her compensation.

She should push the question of whether the crime he is accusing her of has been reported to the Police with the Police when she contacts them, because if not it would show the accusation as part of the harrassment. Even if he counter claims after you have contacted them it won't stand up. The first thing any victim of a crime should do is call the Police, the fact that he hasn't is evidence against him.