Contact Order re Christmas

[rubin]

Hi,

Can anyone help me with an issue I'm facing at the moment.

My Ex & I have a contact order that states that our DC spend Christmas one year at my home & the following at their Dads - fairly standard alternate Christmas's. It also states that the parent, who does not have them at theirs for Xmas, does however have access to them 4 hrs, Christmas Eve & Boxing Day on the alternate Christmas. This was created in order to help our DC have both parents around for some of the day.
Background is that their Dad lives very far away.
This year is my turn to have the children & I said to their dad that he could come over for a couple of hours in the morning (Santa presents time!) & then later on in the day.
He has been extremely verbally abusive to me these last few months & is now threatening that he can demand to have them from 12:30 to 4:30 pm on Christmas Eve & Day! He has threatedned that if I don't comply to this there will be legal repercussions.

Surely there is nothing he can do? And surely this would be viewed as extremely unfair, as when it's his turn next year I will only expect to see the children in the morning when opening Santa presents.

We only signed the Order in February this year.

Of course he can. That's the agreement.

Retract the Christmas day offer and stick solely to the agreement. Don't interact or respond when he's being aggressive.

The reason you have the agreement is so you can fall back on it when one party is being an arse.

Please note - you DON'T have an agreement for Christmas day so no, he shouldn't be there this year and you can't expect it next year.

No, Xmas day isn't part of the agreement

Xmas eve...do you think he will return them or not? Not much you can fo about it if he doesn't return them, so best sort it now. Go back to your solicitor?

How 'very far away' does he live?

I don't see why he is demanding and threatening to have them Xmas eve and Christmas day when from what you have said, he is only entitled to have them for 4 hours on Xmas eve and Boxing day. So presumably you have, out of the kindness of your heart, also offered him contact on Christmas day at your house? That is not in the order and therefore it is not something that he is entitled to and insist on.

I would be inclined to say that you will be retracting your previous offer and the will be sticking with the terms of the Order. He can threaten all he likes, nothing he can do if you comply with the Order.

Sorry everyone, in my hurry, I didn't make it clear that the 4 hours is also for Christmas Day, but it states should be agreed between the parents.

So it is in the order, but surely he can't demand the hours of 1200 - 4pm??
That would be so unfair.

Can he actually legally enforce anything on me at this stage??

ILoveTIFFINY, he has to fly to get to us.

I'm all for having him spend timewith the boys Christmas day, but how couldit be fair that my Christmas day is entirely disrupted on the year they are with me & then they are with him the following year as well!

It's not fair.... Presumably he will fly the dc to his next year? Leaving you with a logistical and accommodation, headache?

Yes. My plan was that I would fly them over (at my cost) & bring them to his house. Then I would join them on Christmas morning for opening Santa Presents & then leave them for the rest of the day.

I believe that will be both fair for the children & fair to him so that he can spend a lovely Christmas in his own home with them.

Last year we spent Xmas at his under duress. I can't imagine how he can be so cruel & not respect my time with them in my home.

Do you know though legally between now & Christmas can he have some sort of enforcement order put on me?? Surely no court would deem his request fair??

Yes. He can return for a variation. I think!!

Yes he can return for a variation. However, given that it is getting to that busy time of year when everyone decides they need to rush to Court for an order, it may well be that he wouldn't get a hearing before Christmas.

Personally, I don't think it is a particularly workable agreement. Most people in my opinion end up agreeing that one parent has children Christmas (and often Christmas Eve and Boxing day) and the other has New Year. The agreement you have means that in years to come, it will be impossible to go away for Christmas if you wanted to or visit friends/family.

very doubt there is anything he can do as the wording is open to interpretation. I'd offer him a choice, a full 4 hours ( at a time that is better for you and the kids- its your turn after all) or the 2 x 2 hour split you've already offered him, he has choice then.

oops meant 'I very much doubt'

Its worded that the actually times should be agreed between the parents.
It also states that the alternate Christmas is at the parents choice of location - giving us the option to go elsewhere if we wish.

I'm just so depressed about it all. I feel I've done my best to accommodate him, even though he is constantly attacking & putting me down as a mother & person. I have always been agreeable to the contact arrangements & never denied contact or dropped them late, etc. In fact I always allow him to pick them up 2 hrs early that as per the order & I regularly let him change weekends to fit in with his work.

I put myself out last year so they could spend Christmas at his place (before the order was drawn up) & now feel like he can even ruin my Christmas with them when it's at my home. I've been looking so forward to this year - being able to spend some quiet time with our DSs & my family, and was totally agreeable to him coming over in the morning & later in the day. He turned that offer completely down a week ago, saying he didn't want to be away from his other friends for Christmas but said he would tell the children it was my fault he wouldnt be there & that I was a cruel heartless B.

Now he's threatening all sorts of legal action to enforce he has them during the day.

This is where I really feel justice lets us down.

Look this is not your fault but it is in YOUR interest to have a clearer order - with emotionally abusive fuckwits it's better for it to be clear.

Given how far away he is if I were you I would seek a variation and change it to alternate Christmases (the entire 3 days) so that when it's your turn you can relax.

I know you're probably right LaurieFairyCake. I just find it so hard not to be near my DSs at Christmas - even for a very short time (when its not my turn). Its their Birthday as well on Christmas Day, so doubly harder.

I am just so tired of his attacks on me & his incessant attempts to bring me down & hurt me.

I think that's what's shining through from your posts - that he is treating you appallingly and you are looking for ways to deal with it.

I would think about reposting for support on the lone parents board - they are a lovely bunch and it's about time you had a rant about what a fucker he is

Thanks LaurieFairyCake - trying to smile! :-)

i'd get a clearer contact order . And if possible try mediation - i know he's a long way away so maybe not possible (is there such a thing as email mediation??). Also say you won't tolerate abusive language from him and if it carries on you will have to revert to email contact with him only.

Unfortunately its by both email & text that he's being abusive. I've tried every which way to get him to stop, but he seems to believe he is 'just telling me what I need to hear' & that its all my fault that he has to send these emails/texts.

He wont do mediation- won't ever listen to anyone!

tell him if he doesn't stop you will make an official complaint to the police about harrassment, then if he continues go and see them. Its not clear if he lives in the UK or not, if he doesn't then get a mobile just for him and switch it on only when you have to- i.e when he has the kids. You could do that anyway maybe? You don't have to read all the old texts, if its urgent he will call back. Keep all the emails and texts as evidence and when you go back to get a variation of your order let the court know he is upsetting you and using contact as an excuse to be abusive. They might order mediation or something else. Oh i shove emails from people i can't bear into a seperate folder and hide the folder from my inbox, read them when you feel ok or just ignore if you know it can't be important. We managed contact before emails and mobiles were invented!

It sounds like an absolute nightmare of an arrangement over Christmas. Wouldn't it be better for the children if they spent a few days solid or a week, with each parent over Christmas, eliminating all this confusion?

As for taking it back to court, he can try, but it's approx 3 months for a court date so it's highly unlikely it would be addressed before this Christmas anyway

I think they can sit and wait to speak to the judge? Usually it's a long wait though

My order is 12noon christmas eve to 12noon boxing day, as a child I would have hated my Christmas day to have been split up. Although I havent had a christmas away from DD yet. I think that it will just be easier to celebrate and less stressful to celebrat eon a separate day.

Your current order means that he can ruin your day, you won't be able to relax wondering if he'll return them on christmas eve, worrying about when he'll turn up christmas day and your children will pick up on the stress of it all. Apply for a variation I cant imagine this order would work very well when you get new partners or have more children.

Not possible in your situation but until 3 years ago DD (now 17) spent half of Christmas day with me and the other half with her father, alternating morning one year and lunch plus the rest of the day the next. Not ideal for either he or I, but DD wanted to see us both and we went with that. We couldn't all be together because ex had remarried and I was persona non grata. Only possible because at that time he and I lived an hour's drive apart.