Who cares for our children if we both die?

[KerriJane]

Morbid thought, I know, but my husband and I often consider what would happen if we both died, who would look after our children? These conversations often take place when we are on a rare weekend away together without the kids ? what if we have a fatal car crash? etc.

We know who we'd like our children to go to (some very lovely friends who weren't able to have their own children, but would have liked to), but we don't know how to a) bring up the subject and, b) make it legal.

It feels like a sensitive subject. Any thoughts/suggestions?

I'm always gobsmacked when peoe haven't had 'the conversation'.

We made sure that we had life insurance and gave my sister and her dh the facts when we asked them. Then we told them to think about it.

We discussed it again s few years later as we emigrated. They decided that they didn't want us to have their dc if they died as they have a strong family on my BIL's side and they did not want us to raise their children over here.

It is morbid but it's also important to do - who do you want to decide what happens to your children? You, or your grieving relatives via the court system after you have gone?

Go to a solicitors and make a will (it won't cost a fortune, we paid about £160 for 2 wills from a reputable local firm) and they will have a section where you nominate legal guardians in the event of your death. Talk to the solicitors about providing for the children and how you want your estate to be handled after your deaths - it doesn't have to be complicated. Then invite your friends round for dinner, tell them you are making a will and that you would be honoured if they would step in if you died. Let your friends think about it and if they say yes you just put their details in your will.

It is a sensitive subject but that doesn't mean you shouldn't tackle it - the people we asked to do this role for our children were incredibly flattered and honoured.

Make a will putting all your assets in trust for the children (assuming you both die together, or die within, say, a month of each other), and make a guardianship clause in your will in favour of those who you want to look after your children. This will serve to vest parental responsibility in the friends, but let them know first.

If you search (not so) old threads you'll find dozens of them on this subject.

I'm a qualified lawyer and freelance will writer (I have an ad on the classified section here), and thinking about Guardianship is one of the most important things to do when making your wills.

There are a few golden rules:

1. Try to avoid appointing your parents unless you are confident that they will still be young and fit enough to care for your children until the youngest is 18

1. Appoint separate people to act as Executors & Trustees (the people who will look after the money) and as Guardians, mainly to avoid a potential conflict of interest, but also to spread the burden of responsibility.

1. For lots of people, there is no obvious solution to the Guardianship problem because they have no youngish friends or siblings who live nearby and share their parenting ethos. If this is the case, it is better to make "good enough" provision than to put off making a will altogether, because, especially for unmarried parents, the danger of not making a will at all far outweighs the remote possibility that they will both die before the children are grown up. If you're unmarried and don't make a will, your partner will not automatically inherit anything at all, and if you are married and you don't make a will, there's a limit to how much the survivor can inherit automatically.

I generally include a clause that whoever acts as Guardian can claim their expenses of doing so from the trust fund. That's why it's important that the Trustees are separate from the Guardians, to ensure that money isn't used improperly.

If you're interested, my ad can be found under the Small Business Section of Classifieds. It's headed "5* Will Writing Service recommended by Mumsnetters". I cover all of England and Wales.

Sorry to 'gobsmack' you, savoy cabbage! Everyone else, thank you for your helpful, constructive comments and advice.

How bloody rude! I did give you helpful comments!

^We made sure that we had life insurance and gave my sister and her dh the facts when we asked them. Then we told them to think about it.

We discussed it again s few years later as we emigrated. They decided that they didn't want us to have their dc if they died as they have a strong family on my BIL's side and they did not want us to raise their children over here.^

My point being that be prepared to re-evaluate the situation if your circumstances change, or if those of your guardian's do.

I do find it amazing that people spend so long choosing a changing bag but don't have this conversation.

....'Gobsmacked' and 'amazed' that someone wants to ask for other people's advice and is interested in other's experiences.

We are all learning how to be good parents and it's best not to make quick judgements and sweeping comments. The 'changing bag' comment is another one. Mumsnet is a generous, safe environment where us mums all support each other. Most people adhere to this philosophy. Thanks again everyone.

Totally agree with KerriJane. We don't need silly comments about how someone else's parenting is gobsmacking. Talk about passing judgement, and then being amazed when someone is upset! Let's all just be generous in our comment please 'savoy cabbage'. Not nice. Slap on wrists! Love and peace. Mildren X

If it's any help, my parents were named as guardians for the children of two of their friends in wills. My parents were honoured and touched to be asked. The other father said he just wanted his kids to have someone to introduce their first real girlfriend to.....

I don't think you should worry about asking your friends.

This is the type of question you ask yourself when your child is born, not randomly as an aside to put to Mumsnet.. SavoyCabbage is completely right to be gobsmacked. If you have decided where your worldly goods are going, why haven't you decided what would happen to your children in the event of a tragedy?

Kerri said oh sorry to be morbid but weve been having this conversation.,.

Savoy said she was gobsmacked when pople HADN'T had the conversation.

Ie savoy was being nice is how I interpreted it...think kerri is too touchy. Savoy is AGREEING with her isn't she? That it's not morbid it's important

This is a really useful thread, and sth DH and I have been discussing. Thanks for starting it, OP - am not at all gobsmacked, and am heading over to classifieds now .

That's how I took Savoy's post too, HeidiHole.

I think Savoy was agreeing that it is an important topic we should all be discussing and that Kerri was right to bring it up. I think Savoy was saying it's gobsmacking that some people DON'T discuss such important things.

Sorry to speak for you Savoy.

I asked friends if they would become guardians to my daughter if both DP and I were to die and have since had it formalised in a will. My advice would be to make it clear to whoever you ask that their answer will not affect your friendhip should they choose to say no. Its such an important thing you would not want someone to agree to it unless they had really thought through the implications ( would have involved moving to a bigger house for my friend for a start). Its tricky but I really think you need to create a climate in which the person feels genuinely free to refuse.

On another note, I found the process of choosing who to ask fascinating. It really made explicit my thinking on what I want for DD.

We're thinking about it now, cartoon - you're right, I'm definitely looking at people in a new light. Have a shortlist, but am scared of making people feel obliged to say yes, when they really don't want to.

While I agree it's important to think about these things, given that they involve visualising the (premature) death of you and your partner, it's not particularly surprising that's it's not a topic people leap on joyfully. Fairly understandable to push it out of your mind, rather than saying, 'hey, sweetheart, let's sit down and contemplate our own mortality tonight!' The OP is addressing this now and that's fair enough.

Me and DH have been asked to do this for our godchildren and felt pleased to be asked. We also genuinely feel that if this were to happen, the kids would want to come to us (no other close relatives). Cartoon yes agree with how it makes you see people!

We have life insurance to financially provide for dcs. We chose people when I was pg with dd1, discussed it with the friends, let them think about it and put it in our will. It subsequently changed as the woman in the couple died and the man is now a lone parent to 3 tweens/teens and frankly doesn't need our 4 dcs too. Like savoycabbage said be prepared to be flexible. When we first asked our friends we only had 1 dc and we never bothered checking if they would still do it when we had more so that is something to think about too. I would hate for my dcs to be split up. My friend had been dead for over a year before I even thought about changing our will, you do need to remember to stay on top of it.
We now have DHs B and SIL as first choice. We didn't ask them when dd1 was born as DBIL was a 21 yo student but he is a married man with a baby now. They are in the will and we have a letter of intent stating our next choices. We thought that was important in case something happens to DBro and SIL and we don't change the will (like they are in the crash that kills us).
We have my bro, DHs sis and DHs parents who all think they should be next and for various reasons (age, distance and nuttiness) we have put them in order and we wanted it in writing so there isn't any fighting when we are dead. DH's sis is really our any port in a storm choice but she will think she should be first. She practically thinks she should be raising them now and we aren't dead. My parents are really too old to consider (in 70s, youngest ds is 2).

I agree that its gobsmacking that so many people don't sort this out (which you are doing, surely). I watch 'heir hunters' slack jawed and thats only a few thousand pounds, not orphaned babies.

I think when you are asking your friends its important to emphasise that they can say no, they can take time to think about it, and there is financial provision. I would have a second choice too. I worry what would actually happen when it comes down to it. People are honoured to be asked in principle but the reality must be hideous.