Magistrates' Court summons for speeding without having had fixed penalty option?

[Ponders]

DD2 was sent a NIP for a speeding offence in December (one of those where they had changed a 40 limit to 30 - she was doing about 36)

Anyway she filled it in & sent it back within the time limit, but has heard nothing since - from previous experience I think she should have been sent a fixed penalty notice (or the choice of a speeding awareness course) but has had nothing in the post.

Today, out of the blue, she has received pages of bumf about a summons to magistrates' court!!!

There is a contact phone number, which she will ring on Tuesday, but what options (if any) does she have now? Can they do this when she hasn't received prior notice?

whats a NIP

Was the fine paid? If a cheque was sent, has it been cashed? Otherwise lost in the post I guess.

Notice of Intended Prosection sneezecakesmum

If she was over 10% over the speed limit she won't necessary be offered the course or standard fine and points. The police can always prosecute. Perhaps though they didn't get her form back.

Thank you. Seems very odd that the fixed penalty fine (my DH gets lots of those!) through the post didn't get to your DD, and her return of the NIP didnt reach them. Lots of explaining and grovelling needed here. Seems very harsh to go straight to prosecution. My DH was over 10% and still only got fined (to add to the others).

NIP normally states outcomes though and the form you fill in determines what outcome you get. They normally say: 'you admit this and we will offer you a course/fine plus points/or opt to take you to court'. If you admit the offence they will not generally take you to court. They only do that if you don't respond within 28 days.

Thanks for replies

They did get her NIP back, because the bumf includes a photocopy of it - so fixed penalty/speed awareness offer lost in post most likely situation???

Can she ask for it to be sent again (whatever it was) or is she now stuck with just getting the points & paying the fine?

Depends - if she writes (and telephones) they may reissue it but if it's already been summonsed they may not be willing to cancel it. Which does not mean the court will not issue a £60 fine and three points btw.

Thanks, wmmc

Of course it may be that she was only offered the fixed penalty 3 points/£60 in the first place, in which case I hope the summons wouldn't make any difference; but if speed awareness was an option I think she'd rather go for that.

Will see what they say on Tuesday then

She won't get a course offer - she was well over the limit - in general if you are going 35, they will offer you the course, 40 and you will be just given points and a fine.

I'm not sure about her 36 - I'd have to look at her papers again - but someone on here recently said their local authority offers speed awareness at 10% over + 3 (ie 36+) so I don't think it's a universal rule.

I just googled & found this from a local paper dated March 2010:

'MOTORISTS travelling at up to 10mph over the speed limit are to be offered courses rather than points and fines.
Current guidance shows motorists will be given a warning at 35mph in a 30mph zone.
At the moment, speed awareness courses can be offered to drivers caught at 36, 37 and 38mph.
But new guidelines are being introduced from April 1.
The change means those caught at up to 39mph on a 30mph roads, 50mph on 40mph roads and 61mph on 50mph roads could be offered a course rather than a £60 fine and three penalty points'

so going by that she should be eligible for the course? (she has no previous speeding convictions)

Where are you? Some areas have a zero tolerance policy which means anything over 10% automatically gets the points.

Lancashire - I've just found \link{http://www.safe2travel.co.uk/more_info.asp?current_id=108\this page from Lancashire Partnership} which shows that in a 30 limit here you're eligible for speed awareness at:

30 mph 36/37/38/39/40/41/42

which is very generous

(Lancs was one of the pioneers of speed awareness courses mind you - they've had them here for about 10 years, but they weren't that kind at the start!)

Try. www. pepipoo

Blimey - here (Oxfordshire) they are v harsh.

speed awareness revenue (unlike fines) all goes to the county though, so lots of them are reviewing their harshness!

DD2 did fill in her licence details on the NIP (a requirement for speeding awareness) so I hope they'll take that into account

Sorry to make this worse but is there any chance that she was not wearing her seatbelt/talking on the phone/doing something else daft that would show up on reviewing the photo evidence? In this case they might just refer it.

don't think so...the bumf includes photocopies from the speed camera showing her number plate (photocopies too bad to detect anything else ) - recorded speed is 36 & the papers don't mention any other offences.

There are SIXTEEN sheets of A4, some printed on both sides but the section headed OFFENCES only includes the speeding

Blimey, I got a one page form to fill in with a letter of half a page offering me the course or the fine and that was it. Clearly your police force have bought their paper in bulk

Sounds like they didn't get her response. Did she photocopy the form she sent back? Did she send it recorded or anything?

I would get her to do some serious grovelling - in writing today (it'll pick up the post but be poststamped for the day it was picked up by RM which will be before she gets to talk to them, and call them Tuesday and grovel some more along the lines of 'I think there's been a mistake I returned my form but.....')

It may not work, but it probably will because it'll cost them (and her actually) to go to court. And while they seek costs from the courts if they have not been shown to take reasonable steps to contact her the court may not award costs so it's in their interests to get it sorted. She will probably not be offered a course though in the circs. They may just think she's chancing her arm and give her points and a fine and I would politely accept if I were her to avoid the visit to the mag.

ah, that's the form she should have got, but didn't. They definitely got the form she sent back - photocopies of it (front & back) comprise 2 of the 16 sheets. The back part says:

"IMPORTANT: You may be eligible to attend a Speed Awareness Course as an alternative to prosecution. To check your eligibility for a course you MUST provide your DRIVING LICENCE NUMBER in the section below. If you do not, you will not be offered a Speed Awareness Course"

and she did provide it - it's there in the photocopy. Although there are also 2 tick boxes (licence issued by: DVLA? or Other?) & she failed to tick the DVLA box but that shouldn't matter, surely?

the bumf offers 3 options

1)plead guilty by post
2)attend court & plead guilty
3)attend court & plead not guilty

option 1 requires completion of financial circumstances form to preclude being fined more than you can afford - option 2 also requires you to fill in this form

It's madness (& a PITA)(& unfair...they should send these things recorded delivery really)

She was clocked on 11th Dec & the NIP is dated 15th Dec; she completed & signed it on 30th Dec but there's no way of knowing when she posted it. The photocopies are dated 28th Feb though

if she has to get the points they'll stay on her licence for 5 years for insurance purposes & that could affect her premiums all that time

Not necessarily - if she has no points at the minute, insurers generally grace the first three - and that's all she'll get. You do have to tell them - in fact she should be telling them as soon as she gets this sorted out otherwise her insurance will be void because of non-disclosure. :)

Umm why has she taken so long to notice they haven't responded, I got the letter and then the fine within seven days of being flashed.

oh, she had noticed - she's mentioned it several times. She just thought it was held up in the system somewhere. (Plus it all happened around Christmas, with all that snow & delayed/lost post, so the usual timescales didn't apply; in fact thanks for that nudge as that may well be why it never landed, I'll get her to mention that!)

Anyway once you've sent the form back, you haven't got the ref numbers, offence details or contact phone, have you? This has never happened to us before (DH & I between us have had many a few speeding tickets in the past & it's always been straightforward) so it never occurred to me to suggest she keep the details & chase it up.

If any of us get any in the future I will make a point of keeping copies

I know the first 3 points aren't supposed to increase your premiums but there's no way of knowing if they do or not, is there? And then if you are unfortunate careless enough to get any more then they definitely will, and she's missed the chance to avoid that.

Bugger

Mine came with a short leaflet with contacts on. Maybe speeding motorists in Oxfordshire are stupider than average so need more help

I think all things legal or important should be sent recorded delivery, only costs a £1 or so and saves so much trouble in the long run! Learnt the hard way sadly

absolutely, scm!

I don't think we have the power to force the police to do it, though