CSA - from the other side

[toobusytofunction]

I know that most of these CSA threads seem to be from the custodial parent claiming CSA and battling ex husbands who refuse to pay their just dues, but I come from the other side- and the system seems horribly unjust!

My DH was left with two ridiculously over-charged credit cards and one family loan in HIS name only (clever girl) by his ex wife. He then spent years living alone and paying her an amount of child support for their two children that (at the time) seemed reasonable to him, but was based on what he could afford and not what was right or fair or backed up by legislation. She told him that it was backed up by the CSA and he naively didn't investigate further. Last year, we began to look into this further and realised the error of his ways. He was paying about 3 times what the CSA seemed to suggest was fair, and it was breaking us financially.

We are struggling with payments now because of the debts of theirs that we are still paying, the cost of our own child, and the money to his ex, as well as the cost of simply living.

Because of this, we chopped the amount we were paying to something reasonable- about 1/3 of what he had been paying. We made this calculation based on the CSA calculator and then took a little off in the hope that it would help make up for the years of overpayment. Clearly unhappy with this, the ex has gone to the CSA, provided all manner of spurious information which they say she does not have to prove, but rather we have to disprove! She has woefully understated the amount of contact we have with the children, and again, we now have to provide receipts to prove that we had them when she says we didn't (note: she is not expected to prove the reverse). They say they won't take into consideration either the years of overpayment based on misguided goodwill, nor the cost of the loans, credit cards or the car we bought her!

The CSA have come back and increased our payments- not to what we were paying before, but to something about mid-way. It is still more than we can afford.

Does ANYONE have any ideas on what I can do about this? Is there anyway to make this deal less distructive for us? i.e. if we pay this amount, can we deduct it from pay at source and save a little on income tax? It seems ludicrous that we have to pay income tax on this amount, pay it all to her, and yet, as per latest guidelines, she doesn't have to declare it as income against her claims for income support! How is that just?? It's just cash in her pocket! She seems to have plenty of spare cash for a series of very costly hobbies and lives in the kind of house my DH and I would kill for, but could never afford! What can we do?!

not a lot.
You can dispute it on the facts (his income, other children in his household, number of nights they spend with you) but the previous payments, debts, car etc don't have anything to do with it.
You can't get tax relief.

This was my fear. We certainly want to cooperate, and we don't want to mess her or their children around, so we don't want to go down the road of refusing to pay or hiding assets.

A friend suggested increasing pension payments to decrease his net income, but if we had the money to do that, we'd be willing to pay it to her.

We genuinely cannot afford it. If we produce bank statements to prove that, what can that do? They can't take money we don't have, can they? Can the CSA force us into debt to pay up?

Posted on your duplicate thread. Don't think about increasing pensions by alot now. they can take that as deliberate deprivation of income, but she'd have to apply for a variation.

BTW if any of the non-credit card debt was spent on the fabric of the house (eg new windows, loft extension) the children are living in, the cost of it can be deducted from his income.

As ChasingSquirrels says, there is nothing you can do about the years when you were paying too much. If the children are spending more time with you than the mother says you should demonstrate that to the CSA who should then reduce the payments.

If you can show the CSA that some of the debt was taken on before your husband and his ex separated and was for the benefit of the family or a member of the family those debts will be taken into account in calculating the maintenance payable.

You cannot deduct it from pre-tax income.

It isn't cash in the mother's pocket. It is support for his children. Her lifestyle is irrelevant as far is child maintenance is concerned. She could be earning as much as a Premiership footballer and he would still have to pay.

I'm afraid they can take money you don't have. If you don't pay they will get your husband's employer to deduct it from his post-tax pay at source. So I'm afraid you have to adjust your outgoings so that you can afford it unless you can persuade the CSA that their assessment is too high.

See the attached link about prior debts

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2001/156/regulation/12/made

the bill's in the post....

Thanks prh for the correction - my original advice was too narrow.

Why is your DH exclusively paying the debts on credit cards, loans etc. Under their financial settlement was it not considered a joint debt, even if in his name as she was the one doing the spending? Whey was it not a 50/50 split. ie half each others assets and half each others debts? Or have I got it all wrong.

They can't take money we don't have, can they? Yes they can.

Can the CSA force us into debt to pay up? Yes they can, in fact they have been bullying people into taking out loans to pay off highly questionable arrears.

A tip from one who knows. Eliminate any thought of fairness, logic or justice when dealing with the CSA. And remember the golden rule - the ones they hit the hardest are the ones who try to cooperate. That is clearly not a reason for not cooperating - apart from the moral issues it would be highly risky. But sadly that's the way it is and the way it has always been.

Sorry I can't be more positive. I speak as the wife of someone who was royally screwed over by them.

Get proper professional advice though. I recently got a client's "arrears" of £40,000 wiped off because CSA didn't realise they'd lost jurisdiction years ago. They actually owed him money. Working on the rest.

Only realised that by sitting him down for a couple of hours and learning everything about his case.

Just out of interest Resolution, how had they lost jurisdiction?

He worked abroad for 4 years for a foreign company.

Ah I see.

Thank you all for your input, particularly resolution for the link. CSA told my dh that they were refusing to consider loan repayments in the calculation because it was 'government policy'. Your link above very clearly states otherwise.
As for the question about why repayment has fallen to him: there was no financial portion to their divorce settlement. She had cleared off years before the divorce came through, taking the children and the home contents with her. Because my dh had a furnished room he could move into at the time, he did not contest this. The loans and cards continued to be paid by him because they had been taken out in his name and she immediately refused to admit any link to them. They had been used mostly to buy home furnishings/white goods which she now owns or has sold, but sadly as receipts were not kept, there is no legal proof that this was a household loan/card and not just his. It looks foolish with the benefit of hindsight, but of course at the time he wasn't expecting her to leave!
The only thing I suppose we can look into is getting the car back, although I believe that's now in her name. He made the final payment on it last year so it's fully purchased. I suspect it won't take long before she sells it and denies any claim he might ever have had to it.
Frightening. I never suspected how many problems we would face with this; how naive of me. At least the loan is nearly paid off now and the credit cards are next on the list! And of course, one day my dear step children who are stuck in the middle of this will be 18 and we can give them their support directly and see that they actually get it!

It may be worth you contacting NACSA

You have to pay to join but it sounds like it could be worth it in your case

Good luck

Your poor DH must be so green he is cabbage looking. Not insulting really but he sounds such a softy, and yes taken for an almighty ride by an unscrupulous sounding woman. Regardless of ExW clearing off she is still liable to half the debts and loans, does not need receipts, its simply the way it works 50/50, but would need to be established legally.

Regarding the car, if he has made all the payments after the divorce he should have some claim on it, but it is soooo complicated without a proper financial settlement. I think the courts may have to get involved to reclaim the car or part of the sale of it. Having it in her name does not give her legal ownership! I suggest you DH gets advice from the CAB, and informs her that any sale is illegal until he establishes any claim on it.

Poor DH, its not always the man who acts badly and this shows it.

I do feel for you, both my husband and I are in a similar situation to you. We "finally" get rid of our exes debts in 2015. Feels neverending. Might actually get a life then!

I can't offer anything constructive but do wish you all the best.

Me xx

You have my complete sympathies.

Partners ex was exactly the same. He had to go bankrupt whilst she swaned around throwing his maintenance at luxury items and days out every day in holidays. We could hardly afford a trip out once over holidays.
But she is getting her just desserts now and is showing signs if struggling. Think she is racking up new debt in new mans name.

Good luck to her! Always living off someone elses money/credit.

sorry not much constructive to add... except that I have seen the csa from both sides. When I was with my ex I resented using my tax credits to make payments to his ex. However now the boot is on the other foot and I am the one claiming thru the csa. I too have debts in my name alone etc... It seems totally unfair from both sides of the fence.

Actually, it does help to know that others have had similar experiences. One gets so used to hearing about husbands who won't pay for their kids and poor mothers being left to fend. I know this does happen, and I am glad that the CSA is there for those who need it, I'm just saddened and frustrated at the seemingly biased nature of the organisation.

Having said that, we did here back earlier this week that they have accepted our evidence that the children have been with us for more than 52 days in the last year, so they are agreeing to factor that into their assessment.

Anyway, on a happier and less whinging note: debts are slowly being paid off and eventually we will be rid of that legacy!

Best wishes to you all.
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