Custody

[Buddhastic]

My dn's Maternal Grandmother is applying for legal aid to get to see my nephew. His mother died almost a year ago and now she has decided after a year of putting my Db through hell (and I do mean hell) that she wants to see my dn, its just the next thing she can do to try to destroy my db. Without disclosing anymore details i can assure you that it is not in his best interests to see my dn. How can we stop her?

Sorry its not custody its visitation

It's contact. Visistation is used as a term in America I think?
It's up to your brother to say no, but she can apply to court (she will get leave) and there would be every incentive to award contact simply to preserve the link with the maternal side of the family.

His reasons for denying contact would have to be very persuasive indeed.

She has applied for legal aid with intent to going to court. We have no 'persuausive argument' as she is very clever at doing things without incriminating herself. Letters not signed etc. This woman (not directly) anonymous letters again accused and prevented another grandchild from seeing her father by accusing him of sexual abuse. It was proven to be false but by that time they had poisoned the gd's mind to the point where she became hysterical whenever she saw her father. He eventually ran out of money and stopped fighting them in court. She will do the same with my dn (not the sexual abuse bit I assume) They live fours hours away from my db will he be forced to take my dn to them or will they have to come to somewhere close to him?

he lives in Scotland

I'm in England. They would have to do the travel I'd assume, and any contact may well be supervised, but I'd defer to someone who knows Scots law as there may be a slight shift in emphasis.

A child's sense of security about their identity and heritage is considered important. Without evidence in the form of professional reports (school, social work, police, medical) of incidents it will be an uphill struggle persuading a Scottish court that contact with extended family (warts and all) is not in the best interests of a child.

Unlike England & Wales any child welfare reports have to be paid for in a similar fashion as solicitor fees so the costs of children proceedings can be expensive. Rather than opposing contact my suggestion would be for your DB to contact Relationships Scotland(formerly Relate and Family Mediation Scotland) with a view to negotiating a compromise that can work for all. Alternatively if social workers are involved it's worth him asking for a family conference.

Thanks for your reply. I live abroad and my Mum and db are in such a state and i feel so helpless.

Please if anyone knows Scots Law can you help?

Perhaps my db could say 'hold on you don't need legal aid as you can have contact but it must be in my area and supervised' and then the legal aid would be denied as there would be no real need to go to court. This would mean she couldn't be horrible about our family to my dn and would have to spend 'quality' time with him. This would be a difficult pill for my family to swallow but then at least if there has to be contact they could have some control on the affects it would have on my dn. If they were allowed contact who stipulates how often and they have threatened in the past to take him abroad 'on holiday' would that be allowed?

I'm not a lawyer but I have a reasonable understanding of Scottish family law. You are very unlikely to find a Scottish family lawyer posting on Mumsnet or indeed anywhere else, insular bunch that they are.

The courts in Scotland generally encourage mediation and other ways of resolving family disputes. If mediation hasn't been attempted there is every possibility the court will expect everyone to attend during proceeding anyway. Older children should automatically be invited to let the court know how they feel. If no agreement can be reached the courts will ultimately weigh up any evidence and determine how often and whether holidaying abroad is appropriate.

Thank you, have found a Scottish website that might be able to deal with the facts and figures. Mediation would be difficult for my db whereas his in laws have played the system so often they know the game and how to beat it.

Although this may not apply to your brother as he is in Scotland, when Legal Aid is granted or applied for I believe you are asked to attend mediation.

It may be a tactic to agree to this to avoid a court case, although this may well follow.

It may be an idea for him to contact the legal aid provider for his area himself to find out the position.

You can always appeal against the grant of a legal aid certificate/public funding if you have grounds ie contact not denied, you have agreed to mediation etc. Does your brother know anything about their financial position that would preclude them from being granted public funding?

I'm in Scotland, not a lawyer but have just gone through the court for a contact order.

My ex wouldn't agree on set times to see the children and social work felt that they needed stabilty from him so a contact order was to be set up.
He wouldn't agree with pick up times that fitted around the children, wouldn't take into account what the children wanted so it ended up in court.
The Sherif appointed a Curator for the children and they told her what they wanted from him. She reported back to the Sherif their wishes and he had to adhere to them, although he still chances his arm now and again.
There was no mediation betweens us, only letters going back and forth between lawyers, he wanted it his way, no one elses feelings or wishes were took into account.
I had legal aid but he was paying for his lawyer.

In Scotland anyone on an income less than £25k maybe eligible for some legal aid and there are no conditions about attending mediation. Information is available from the Scottish Legal Aid Board website and there is a bit about opposing an application.

The Scottish Government has produced a Grandparents Charter which is available here;

www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/112493/0027333.pdf

OP is correct - negotiation, compromise and agreement often gives more control over the outcome than a court imposed decision.

OMG just looked at the SLAB website - what a generous system - basically anyone earning under 25k will get legal aid - even if you have no dependents or housing costs.

Resolution, the current system in Scotland has existed for just over a year. Before that legal aid was brought to it's knees with hardly any solicitors taking on legal aid cases. For the first time ever a Glasgow group of solicitors voted to go on strike.

One father who was a primary carer even approached me for help finding a family solicitor having spent the night in jail because he was falsely accused of DV (allegedly) whilst mum executed a plan to abscond with the children south of the border. Court rules and procedures are complicated here making it very difficult if not impossible for "party litigants." After searching the length and breadth of Scotland to no avail his criminal solicitor rather reluctantly agreed to represent him in children proceedings.

It will come to that in E&W. The latest proposal is to cut fees across the board by 10%, when experts like psychologists can still charge what they want (often up to £200 per hour for reports). There have been no meaningful increases in LA funding in the last 15 years. Basic Legal aid pays £50 per hour, so we make a loss on it. For court work we get to charge £65 per hour. I booked my car in for a service the other week and will pay more per hour to my mechanic.

Part of me relishes the loss of legal aid. The work we do is usually not appreciated, we are accused of being on a gravy train (at those rates?!), and quite frankly we can't afford any longer to susidise legal aid cases with private paying clients. I don't see how the LSC can expect us to give the same standard of service when they are paying only a third or less of what we charge privately. Perhaps it might be missed when it's gone, but there is no great clamour by the public to keep it.

London solicitors get slightly more - about £3 an hour for basic work, £4 an hour for court work. As Resolution says, no-one is getting rich on LA.

I occasionally see press articles complaining about cases where LA has been denied or is not available, suggesting that reform is needed, but it doesn't seem to capture people's attention.

It is completely crazy that Legal Aid is to be restricted. I am shocked at the prices solicitors are paid for LA work, I thought it was the same as private prices, especially as many property cases are repaid anyway. A friend of DH who is a solicitor does mainly LA and did extra training to represent in the Crown Court (think thats what he meant). He said he may be forced out of the work he loves because he mainly does criminal stuff.

Will it get to a point (like civil law) where you automatically lose if you can't pay or get LA. Will the NHS be like America - no insurance = die.

OPs DBs situation looks dire from his POV.