divorce and property

[womblingfree1970]

Have been sent here after posting in relationship thread.My post is "is H having his cake and...."

H and I are seperated have been for 5 years.Not divorce yet so up til now including seperation married for 15.

I live in marrital home with children 7 and 11. 11 year old is disabled.So I am in receipt of carers allowance.She gets dla,mobility.Although she needs help etc now she isn't completely dependent and will be able to leave home in the future.
I'm SAHM.

H is living in flat.Paying rent on flat and has income of 40K.Because of a loophole he pays minimum £5 CSA a week.

This is my issue.I'm in home that is mortgaged(although mortgaged paid off).The mortgage is soley in my name and always have been because I got it prior to meeting H.Although we paid off house together and he can prove this.

I have no income and no other assets and pay for upkeep of home and children.He has 40K and no real outgoings.And has large savings.

As far as the property what % is he likely get if we divorce.I know I won't have to pay until youngest is 18 but how much is he really entitled to.Is it 40/60 split.

Because I can't see me ever being able to afford this and if I have to sell when youngest is 18 I'm stuck with no home.

What is the loophole that allows him to pay the CSA £5 per week? That rate only applies if his income is less than £100 per week or he is receiving certain benefits.

I'm not sure I understand the concept of a house that is mortgaged but the mortgage has been paid off.

To determine the financial settlement you will both have to declare all your assets and then work out a fair split. There is no hard and fast formula. Without knowing how much he has saved, details of pensions and so on it is impossible to say what is appropriate. It may be that you will end up with all of the house. You should consult a solicitor who specialises in family law. You will probably be able to find one who will give you an initial half hour consultation free of charge.

The loophole is he's self employed and runs it as a business.Paying himself minimum wage and declaring rest business profits which sits in a bank.He has no outlay/overheads to pay in business and has no employees.So the business money is really his.Thats the loophole and there are many people out there doing this and getting away with it.And the law can't touch them

get a copy of the land registry documents spelling out who is on the deeds and if your H has a charge on it.

tho possibly if you married counts as jiont assets anyway.

i also dont udnerstand how it can be mortgaged if the mortgage is paid off. either there is a mortgage on it (bank has a charge on it, it is part owned by the bank) or there is no mortgage and it is all yours (or your s and H's)

While it isn't helpful now as it means he is only paying you £5 a week the fact he is storing up assets in the house could be a good thing in the future as you would be entitled to have the business audited and count net assets it as a marital asset when agreeing settlements.

It is worth you getting legal advice now though, even if you don't plan to act right away.

Just been through financial side of split up.

As said above there are no hard and fast rules on how assets will be split , there are no he will get x % and you will get y% of your house , his savings or anything else. Each case is looked at indivually and yes get a family law solicitor.

I dont understand about mortgage/no mortgage either.

FWIW I have read your full thread on relationships. I am at a loss to understand why you allowed him back in your life. As has been said the fact he has chosen to use a loophole to consistently sell you short and at such an insulting low level is awful and says a lot about him as a person.

After 5 years separated whether or not you decide to continue with your situation with him please at least go and find out your actual legal position and the ins and outs.

Good luck

Yes sorry guys haven't been clear.This is the full rundown on property.

I got property prior to meeting H.I had a mortgage on it.Met H he moved in and we got married and joint account.Then paid mortgage together and about a year prior to split paid mortgage off.So no mortgage now.I never put his name on deeds(oversight) so deeds soley in my name but he's declared interst through land registry because we were married for 10 years when we split.So I believe I will owe him a percentage.I have lived alone for 5 years but we haven't divorced.

It depends alot on the extent of his savings, Which you don't specify.
You MUST apply to the CSA for a variation - go for both lifestyle inconsistent with declared income and deliberate diversion of income. The CSA should then assess him as if his income were what he could afford it to be.

Resolution

His company is known as a limited company and his savings count as business owned not his.Even tho his owns the business.Very complicated but CSA can't touch him

Yes they bloody well can. Give up if you want.

www.childsupportsolutions.co.uk/nrp-defending.htm

Did you realise that whatever he pays himself as dividends won't be taken into account unless you apply for a variation?

wombling, I am wondering, or worrying might be a better word, that you want some validation to take him back. That some legal bod might say "yes indeedy he IS entitled to half your house, there is NO comeback on the CSA, so you might as well take him back, your life will be easier if you do that."

But honestly - it won't. This man earns good money and yet deprives your children of it. Why are you not divorced already?

You need a decent solicitor and some outside advice on your feelings about him. There are better blokes out there. Don't see yourself as being alone for the rest of your life. People change and start again all the time. My dad did aged 50!

I think you are just ground down by circumstances and see this as the easiest option. I can understand that. But you HAVE your freedom. All you need do is formalise things. Kick his arse to touch and I promise you, things can only get better.

My old work mate constantly reports on how she is babysitting her grandaughter at the weekend.....and going on a succession of hot dates with lovely men the rest of the time. Your life is not over and all hopeless. You have a world of possibilities in front of you - once you lose the excessive ex.

Portofino

Not looking for validation to stay in marriage.looking for answers to a way out.

Agree completely with Resolution.

His savings may be owned by the business but he owns the business. His net worth therefore includes the value of the business. If the business is worth more than £65k that gives grounds for a variation. In addition they can take into account dividends and consider diversion of income and lifestyle inconsistent with declared income.

The CSA CAN touch him. It may be hard work to get them to do so but don't give up.

But you ARE out! Get a solicitor and sort it. My dad's ex wife got the house that HE paid for after 10 years of marriage, plus a share of his pension. They didn't even have children together.

Don't forget the pension bit either!

All very good advice.

There is no set percentage. My ex H and I bought all our properties together, he earns 5x more than me (I put him through retraining etc. and turned down promotions once DC came along to work part time). X-H cleared out our savings and children's inheritance money before he left. He also run up loads of debts, so on paper he had nothing except debts. However I got awarded 100% of property as it was clear his lifestyle was extravagent indicating he was expecting to continue to earn at the level he had been, and wasnt acting like a man in debt.

And the disparity between our spending was shocking- for every month statement I had 1-2 pages of Direct debits and food. He had 10 (yes 10!) pages of trips to designer shops, bars, hotels, cash withdrawals, let alone his credit card statements!

In his Form E he will have to put in all bank and credit card statements showing how much money he is spending - that might indicate he is spending beyond his declared means. Courts take into account everyone's assetts, including you have a right to a share in his pension and his business, as he has a right to a share in your property.

IMO if I were you I'd get it to court sooner rather than later, as you want his Form E declaration of accounts & from when he needs to supply statements for business and his bank accounts started asap. Before he tries to hide that money away or run down the business. Courts notice when people do that, and in my case the Judge took it into account that X-H had spent money on himself that was properly due to myself and DC and was seeking to deprive his family of money by his actions.

It is worth investing in a solicitor/ barrister for arguing your case in court in financial assessment, as they do all the complicated stuff including looking at his business assetts etc. which will save you money in the end. Costs about £2000-1500 for first barrister day and £1000 p.d. after then.

Fill out Form E yourself and see the solicitor as little as possible (aim for 2-3x only) and keep court appearances as few as possible. Give them clear instructions not to write/respond to letters, ask these to come to you, and that you just want them to deal with the court hearings, to keep costs low. Make sure you get your solicitor's advice however in what your essential expenses are, as it's easy to forget whole areas of cost!

By the way, when he has to fill out Form E for court. you get copies of all his declared financial assetts. (Make sure you notice if he has missed any out! Courts do not take kindly to men who are shifty and try to perjure themselves by hiding assets).
But this info is gold dust - you can use this info to give CSA factual information as well about what he does with his money, to help with pursuing him. Do both court and csa at the same time (dont drop the csa because you are going to court), as by time your financial settlement comes through, you want to have your CSA set at the right level and judges do use this to set level of maintenance (i.e. above child support level)

sorry I meant what he does with the income in the business (showing he is moving it to the business accounts and it's just sitting there to avoid paying as much child support).

This is my first ever MN post but your DH sounds lots like mine. Separated 3 years, 3 DC who live with me though one has gone to uni this year. Lost my job last summer and 3 weeks later DH put for divorce (which I'd expected). We have a big mortgage on this house and a smaller one on a rented house 20 miles away. Also some savings though the court case has eaten up all my redundancy money. He has a limited company (only employee or director). He and my lawyers have always said that we get a 50/50 split of all assets and debts. But never paid any income tax during the split so 4 days before court in December he produced a £95K tax bill which my lawyers said at least £32k (ie income tax)was my responsibility. He paid himself well into 6 figures in dividends last year and cut maintenance to £550 after the mortgage on Christmas eve by cutting down days he worked. Like you, DC and I stayed in a mate's caravan for 6 days last summer while DH had 7 holidays abroad. I expect you'll manage this better than me but be really careful. Unless you go for a full 2 days court hearing (I know you haven't even been to a lawyer yet) you don't have time in court to explain his business dealings. even if you know them.