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Legal matters

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Original poster

Appealing something in crown court

15 replies

howmuchyousay · 07/02/2011 13:38

Cutting very long story short. DH was got points on licence years ago. Cock up meant they were given the wrong code which DH didn't notice.

Now his insurance company won't pay out on claim as he gave wrong code.

Went to magistrates court to get it sorted out but they told him he would have to appeal to crown court?

How much is this going to cost? What's involved if he wins or loses?

Slightly shaking at he thought of it all.

OP posts:

mranchovy · 07/02/2011 20:21

Go to a citizens advice bureau, they will explain what your rights are in this situation and how to enforce them.

sneezecakesmum · 08/02/2011 21:00

What was the driving offence? it must have been serious enough (like drink driving) to make them invalidate the insurance. If it was a minor speeding fine and the code he put in carried a similar penalty in weighting the cover, than they are acting unreasonably.

I also had a fight with an insurance company (though there was no claim involved) and took it to the financial ombudsman in the end. They are very fair and often find in favour of the client (takes ages though) I take it the crown court because they can overrule the insurance companie's decision because of the monies involved?

Original poster

howmuchyousay · 08/02/2011 21:51

It was an MS90, which is failure to give details.

It's a complicated story but essentially, DH did give his details but queried the information they had so instead of giving him an SP30 (for doing 58 in a 50) they gave him an MS90.

It was 4 years ago. 3 points, £60.

However, Admiral refuse to insure people who have an MS90 offence (apparently people started to use it to get off bigger speeding offences so it's now 6 points and £1,000 fine) so are invalidating the insurance.

DH has to go to Crown Court to get the intial MS90 overturned because it was incorrectly administered. Whether they will so far after the event (When the offence is actually off his licence) remains to be seen!

OP posts:

sneezecakesmum · 08/02/2011 22:48

Would a court be able to overturn it after all this time, would they need proof? witnesses? evidence? It sounds as though its a bit tricky for DH. Admiral seemed to have changed the goalposts a bit as it was seen a a more minor offence 4 years ago but I suppose it is considered worse now. I suppose legal aid is out of the question in his case if he is employed?

I suppose the lesson is be ultra careful with car insurance, its a minefield.

shelscrape · 09/02/2011 00:17

Did you husband actually plead guilty to the MS90 offence (failing to give details under section 172 Road Traffic Act 1988)? It will make all the difference as to whether the magistrates will repoen the case or if a Crown Court are likely to uphold any appeal. Does you DH still have a copy of the orginal court summons?

Your DH will not be eligible for any public funding (legal aid) as this is not an imprisonable offence.

To be frank if you DH knew there was an error on his driving licence, he should have got in touch with the DVLA previously to try and get to the bottom of it all.

Original poster

howmuchyousay · 09/02/2011 09:13

There's no paperwork. The court doesn't have any.

As far as concerned he was pleading guilty to a speeding offence.

He never noticed the error until the insurance company refused to pay.

It's all a big mess.

OP posts:

Original poster

howmuchyousay · 09/02/2011 09:15

The issue arose because the car details were wrong on the initial ticket.

DH queried them which was noted as failure to identify.

The vehicle details are still wrong on the court entry.

OP posts:

GreenAmy · 09/02/2011 14:58

Are you sure you need to go to court, ring DVLA and ask them!

sneezecakesmum · 09/02/2011 19:26

If it is a simple clerical error which your DH was not aware of at the time DVLA and/or the police should have kept documents relating to the speeding fine. Official records I believe should be kept for a minimum of 6 years.

mranchovy · 09/02/2011 19:39

I think you are all focussing on the wrong issue: the problem is not the offence recorded on the license, the problem is that the insurance won't pay out.

A complaint to the insurance company followed up with the insurance ombudsman is the way to go, and a CAB will assist with this if you give them all the information accurately.

sneezecakesmum · 09/02/2011 21:02

The insurance ombudsman wont look at the case unless all the other avenues with the insurance company (appeals etc) are exhausted. I've been there. I'm assuming DH is facing a bill for the damage caused in an accident?? So time not on his side. The insurance company's stance is quite clear and not much room for manoeuvre - he supplied false details and the insurance was set at a price that reflected that.

If OP can prove the information recorded on the licence is wrong then the insurance company must automatically reverse their decision. Until that happens they have no case.

I'm assuming DH put a 'SP' prefixed code or something of equal weighting to a minor speeding fine down?

hardlyworthit · 09/02/2011 21:09

Yes, DH put at SP30 on his insurance form, because that is what he believed he had, and what it should have been.

He is going to appeal it in court and then plead to the financial ombudsman as a plan B.

I know it's a shitter but it is a genuine mistake with evidence to prove the cock up (wrong car details on conviction etc) and seems such a harsh penalty.

It wasn't like he was being deliberately dishonest or trying to lower his premium - the premium would have been the same. (At the time, MS90 and SP30 were viewed as the same, it's only recently that MS90 has been upgraded to more serious offence).

I know it's not the insurance company's job to be generous

sneezecakesmum · 09/02/2011 21:18

Has he kept a copy of the original letter from the police alerting him of the speeding fine with the incorrect details? It would be gold dust! Get in touch with that particular police force to see if they have records of DHs reply. Get any documents relating to the incident. You may need to pay for legal representation in court but it will be worth while for your case to be well presented. Depends of course what the financial cost of the claim was and how disasterous it would be for you to pay.

I think if youve got documentary evidence of your defence you are in there with a fighting chance. As I said before the ombudsman is usually pretty fair.

Good luck!

hardlyworthit · 09/02/2011 21:22

No paperwork from police but court record shows wrong car details. Registration is correct but make and model of car is wrong. He has evidence that car was actually different make and model.

Police haven't kept any records.

sneezecakesmum · 10/02/2011 11:16

Think he has reasonable case. Is this a civil case now, as he is challenging just the documentation or is it different as the original case was criminal? Perhaps some of the solicitors on here can help?? The evidence in a civil case does not have to be so compelling as in a criminal case so you would be in a better position. CAB can give advice and also some solicitors give free 1/2 hour legal advice. Frankly he's got nothing to lose by taking it to court to settle. I can understand your feelings, fighting a big insurance company is awful, but if the court dont find in your favour and you have received a final letter of denial from the insurance company, take it to the ombudsman. This is so difficult to call!

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