Power of Attorney. Help please?

[thelibster]

Hi, Just wondering if any ?legal beagles? out there can help me. My mother is terminally ill with cancer. She doesn't know how long she has left and doesn't want to know. She wrote to her solicitor to ask him to set up PofA for me to be able to access her bank accounts in case she either becomes mentally incapacitated (she is completely "all there atm but we know that the brain is one of the places a secondary is likely to occur) or if "the worst" should happen unexpectedly quickly. The trouble is the cost. She has had a letter from her solicitor today saying that it will cost £1300 which she doesn't have (and neither do I) for life, or she can do it for one year at a time for £100 + vat. Is this true? Surely there must be many people who cannot afford £1300 at the drop of a hat? She's worried about taking it out one year at a time because what if she becomes mentally incapacitated in the meantime? Sorry, it's been a bit of a ramble

Do it yourself. And don't go to that solicitor again.

Thank you mranchovy. I am presuming that as you say "don't go to that solicitor again" rather than " a solicitor" that not all solicitor's charge such prices?
I'm sure mum will be very sad to hear that she shouldn't use that solicitor again. I know that she has used that particular firm for years, (she used to deal with her resent solicitor's father).

present solicitor obv

Can your mother simply write a letter to her bank making you an extra signature on the account?
Have you applied for either DLA or attendance Allowance for mother?

West Virginia, she gets both DLA and Attendance Allowance, as she has multiple health problems and cannot walk more than a few feet with the help of a zimmer frame. When I take her out, to the hospital or, until recently, on her better days, to the shops or to the local pub for lunch, I have to take her in a wheelchair. There are potential problems with making her account a joint one, I think, as I am in the middle of a divorce and finances are a tricky area. She did suggest this herself and I had to evade the question as she doesn't know that my husband and I are separated. I don't want to cause her any more anxiety or worry given her present situation. It's relatively easy to keep up the pretence as my H never visited her and works/worked away from home a lot anyway and it has been years since she was able to visit us as her home is quite extensively modified to enable her to be as independent as possible and she wouldn't be able to manage here.

May I suggest that if she has kept a copy of the letter which she sent to her solicitor, then she just sends a copy of that letter to her Bank Manager. The other alternative is to ask Age Concern or CAB for their advice.

You don't need to make the accounts joint; you need to fill in a third party mandate so that you can sign on it but the money isn't jointly held. It would lapse on death but a power of attorney would too iirc.

Does she get any of her money from DWP from the Post Office?

I have a PoA for three of my family members and it has been a very simple process of seeing a solicitor and the cost of about £100 each time. There should be no difference in cost regardless of how long it is for, as long as it is explictly spelled out on the PoA.

I do recommend getting a PoA, not just a bank account change. Because of the Data Protection Act, companies like the gas and electricity and phone suppliers will not speak to you, once your mother is unable and everything will take that much longer to deal with.

Phone a couple of solicitors for quotes, sounds like your present solicitor is being irresponsible here.

I have just done this for my father.

The procedure for obtaining POA changed a few years ago and is now not so simple as popping into a bank with a letter. Follow mranchovy's link, download the LPA property and finance form, fill it in and send to the Office of the Public Guardian with a fee of £120. It is now the only way to do it and is quite simple to do. My friend is now having nightmares trying to sort out her mentally incapacitated mother's finances and is having to pay a lot of her mother's bills out of her own pocket whilst she is investigated regarding whether or not she is a fit and proper person to take over. Having an LPA in force would have avoided all the hassle.

Yes, don't go to that solicitor again. He is entitled to charge what he wants of course, but he should have pointed out the alternative of doing it yourself.

There is generally no need for a solicitor, the pack from the Office of the Public Guardian is intended for public use. The fee is £120, although this may be reduced or waived if the applicant has income of less than £16,500.

In my practice we charge £300 plus VAT. I don't do them myself, but they don't seem massively complicated.

£1300 is ridiculous.

OP follow the advice and get a PoA rather than just be the extra signatory on her bank accounts. It's about much more than money. If she reaches a point when she is deemed not to have capacity to make decisions, be this about finance, heathcare etc, you can't make those decisions for her unless she has legally hand that responsibilty over to you.

Bloody solicitor, I'd report him / her to the Law Society!

Wow, thank you all so much for all your advice.
sagger I didn't realise that PofA would cease on her death, one of the things she constantly worries about is her funeral. She has the money put away in a savings account and wants me to be able to access it so that I don't have to take out a loan until her flat is sold. But I suppose that is covered in her will as she has appointed me executor? I don't know if the will comes into effect immediately or if it has to go through some kind of legal process first.

I am really clueless as it's the first time I've had to deal with the imminent demise of anyone close to me in this way. When my father died my brother and my father's second wife handled all this kind of thing but as he died "intestate" (if that's the right term) there was quite a lot of wrangling that went on and it resulted in my brother estranging himself from the rest of the family, sadly.

I have emailed the Office of the Public Guardian to post me the relevant forms (it seems I need to do two, one for matters financial and one for health and general care?) as I don't have a printer and mum doesn't have broadband. Mum will definitely fall into the category of not being liable for the full fee, so it shouldn't be too expensive. It seems that the signatures don't have to witnessed, can anyone confirm this please?

Thanks again for all the support. I really appreciate it.

Funeral expenses are the first charge on a deceased persons estate. Normally you can take the Funeral Directors invoice to the bank and the bank will pay the bill out of the deceased persons account.

OP - the PoA does cease on death. Basically until probate is granted (you as executor will need to obtain this by way of filling out the relevant forms and sending to your local probate registry) no-one has access to the deceased's money or property. Once probate is granted you as executor must distribute the estate in accordance with the provisions in the will.

However, in my experience most banks are helpful in the matter of the funeral expenses if you are up-front with them. In my own father's case, when he died we (as executors) went to the bank with the death certificate, which in effect froze the account until probate was issued to us. However, the bank manager explained that if we were to take the funeral bill to them, they would pay this from Dad's bank account direct. This they did.

There is a very helpful book on wills and probate which you can get from the library which explains exactly what you need to do as an executor.

The Office of the Public Guardian are very helpful. The forms for a PofA look lengthy, but if you take your time it is a quite straightforward process.

Sorry about your mum.

jacksgrannie Ah, probate, that's it. I kinda knew that there was something that had to be done before we could act on anything in the will. I am very dense when it comes to legal matters I'm afraid. As an artist, I'm hopeless at anything practical! I will go to the library next time I am in town and get the book you mentioned. Thanks for your sympathy, it's greatly appreciated. It's been hard to talk about mum's approaching death so matter of factly. Harder still, given that I'm also dealing with a divorce and having to move house at the same time. I do try hard to stay cheerful and positive but I confess to having shed a few tears over this thread.

You only need probate if the estate is worth more than a certain amount but I forget what that figure is at the moment.
Just remember you need to pay all bills before you pay any bequests and you're allowed to take an amount as executor for your expenses too.
I hope it all goes smoothly and gives your mum peace of mind.

I don't know how old your mum is but I'm going through all this with my dad. I found Age Concern - or rather Age UK as they're known now - have been fantastic. They have free legal advice and also solicitors that, although not free, work on reduced rates for arrangements like this and, more importantly, have a proven track record and are reliable and trustworthy.

I have found the support they have offered and the contacts they have made for me to have taken a lot of the stress away from an already awful situation. Btw, power of attorney can take an absolute age, so the sooner you apply the better.

All the very best xx

Gallicgirl I reckon mum's estate won't be over any "certain amount" She only has a few thousand saved for her funeral and a very small flat in a sheltered housing complex. Thank you for your reminder to pay all the bills, that is exactly the kind of thing I am likely to forget! I don't think I would want to take anything for my expenses tbh. I would feel bad, like I was taking the money from her and I don't need any financial incentive to do her a favour, I love her to bits and will miss her so much when the awful time comes. But thank you none the less for pointing that out to me.

Everyone has been so kind with their advice and good wishes. I am feeling quite overwhelmed.

oneofsuesylvesterscheerios Thank you so much. I will certainly remember Age UK if I have any more legal questions. You see? I hadn't even thought of them. Sometimes I feel as though I'm losing my grip on reality. (And it was tenuous enough to start with We will certainly be applying for PofA as soon as I receive the forms. I'm not surprised it takes an age, it's a government office isn't it?

AgeUK are fantastic and don't forget that if any of the firms are not clear or if you are unsure generally the good old Citizen's Advice Bureau is fantastic.

Sorry about you mum. You are doing so well to cope with everything.

dontdisstheteens Thank you, yes, CAB, another good thought. Thank you for your kind sympathy. Not sure I am doing so well really but if I appear to be, that's something!