Can any law protect us from jeering neighbours?

[Solo2]

I'm pretty sure there's nothing we can do and it may sound trivial but....we've had difficulties with the next door neighbours (as I've relayed in another thread "Is this legal? Blackmail threatened")

Now the neigbour children are climbing a tree, who's branches overhang their garden, in order to stare in at us at a height but from about 2 feet away. They jeer and 'catcall' the whole time we're out there, like tonight, really rude, personal remarks, just about anything to try to stop us enjoying ourselves.

I presume they're not doing anything against the law and that anyone can say anything in their own garden and look into their neighbours garden, without this being in any way illegal?

I can't talk to the parents, as we're not on speaking terms and from the background context, I'm 90% sure the parents are actively encouraging and condoning the children's behaviour anyway. So they'd probably be pleased with themselevs if I complained.

All we do, at present, is try to act like we're paying no attention and carry on with our activity in the garden. But of course it's intensely intrusive and upsetting and all I really want to do is go back into the house, which the next door children interpret as them having 'won' again.

What if anything can I do? My only possible solution is to break the law myself and erect an extension panel heightening our garden fence to obscure their view. But even if we did, and they'd probably complain to the council, I'm pretty sure they'd find another means of climbing high in their garden to look over (they already use their trampoline for this too).

Verbal harassment? Is that something they could be charged with? (Not the kids themselves but their parents)

Plant some leylandii? They are still legal afaik.

If they are over the age of 10, then they could be dealt with under the Harassment Act (they are pursuing a course of conduct).

Can you cut down the branches? You have the right to access their land to maintain your tree.

\link{http://www.nfh.org.uk/resources/Articles/harassment/index.php\harassment from your neighbour}

Any use?

The children involved are only about 7 and 8 yrs old, so it feels sort of ridiculous to be upset by them. However, the context in which it's happening is that the parents seem to be encouraging and condoning them, as a means of 'retaliation'. I guess I'm also worried about what will happen as the children and their friends get older as the mother has already made it clear to me (in relation to the original issue) that she will not tell her children what to do or not to do nor prevent them doing what they shouldn't do. How they'll act, as teenagers, I dread to think.

the tree they're climbing isn't in my garden or theirs but in a privately owned field backing our gardens. The original 'dispute' (long story) was that we supported the field owners request that no one trespasses in their field and the neighbours had been using the field as an extension to their garden. So they were furious to lose their 'extended garden'.

The tree branches overhang into the neighbours garden, thus enabling the children to climb the tree, thereby sort of still trespassing anyway, albeit up the tree! So the jeering and catcalling is their way of saying, "We STILL refuse not to trespass and what's more, we'll make your lives a misery, to get our own back!"

Is this too petty to merit an accusation of harassment?

I'm just completely shocked, as I was in the original issue, that the parents aren't bending over backwards to stop their children causing more trouble and rushing to apologise to us. It's the complete opposite of how I am regarding neighbours and my children.

Neighbour mediation isn't possible either, as my professional role means that I have links with the local mediation service and could therefore never use it as a client.

I guess I could ask the field owners/ their shepherd (who grazes sheep on the land) to cut down branches of the tree but as these overhang into the neighbours garden, he may not be prepared to do so nor does he have any personal reason to do so, as he's not got the problem we have.

I've got a horrible feeling that there's nothing I can do until they 'up the ante' and begin to throw things into our garden or make real threats (which wouldn't be taken seriously anyway if the children are so young) that Further upset my own DCs.

As for leylandii, there's no space at that part of our garden for this....but I could pursue the idea of a high fence panel, perhaps two inches into our garden away from my boundary and therefore, I hope, not counted as part of the actual boundary???

Get a sprinkler, when they are in the tree turn it on.

It is anti social behaviour, however, as you say they are under 10. Their parents should be responsible for them though.

I've said this before to you solo but they are upping the ante every single time you try and do things nicely. Get the police involved. You've tried being nice and patient and they've just turned up the abuse. You really need to get tough

Harassment and nuisance.

I agree with LadyBiscuit-log the incidents and tell the police. If you can't talk to the parents why not put a polite letter through the door asking them to stop. Not because they will, but because when you later get the police involved it will show how unreasonable they are.

Polite letter, followed by solicitor's letter. I would also offer to pay the owner of the tree to have it chopped down.

As far as chopping down the branches is concerned, the owners of the field have a perfect right to do so if I understand the law correctly.

If someone else's tree overhangs your land, you can cut off the overhanging bits as long as you give them back to the owner; therefore (I infer) the owners can cut off the branches or cut down the whole tree themselves.

As, from your story, the owners of the land have no obvious reason to want to placate your horrible neighbours, I would have thought they'd be thrilled to cut down the tree & stop the horrible neighbours' horrible kids trespassing up it!

I would be tempted to ignore them in the hope that this will not develop further. Afterall, it is September so presumably you will not be sitting out in the garden through the winter. They will hopefully have moved on by next summer.

Oh yes niggle, good point, pray for rain and get working on the landowner to get rid of the tree and build up the fencing.

Thanks. I'm absolutely pulled between ignoring them until they get bored and upping the ante myself and contacting the police for advice and with a formal log of problems. Because the children are so young, the police may not take this seriously however.

I've had a better look at the tree in question and I think it might actually be rooted within the neighbours garden - but hook out over the field. So the children may simply be within their rights to climb their own tree and shout things. At what point might that be deemed harassment and nuisance?

I find the audacity of the children - who have a gang of friends with them - incredible as it's so different from how mine would behave or how I'd LET mine behave.

Another option is to film the children as they jeer and catcall and either hope that this puts them off and they become self-conscious or that we might later be able to use this as evidence of harassment?

No its not "legal" to harass neighbours. if the children themselves are below the age of criminal responsbility its their parents who are responsible for the breach of the peace. You are entitled to "quiet enjoyment" of your own property.

Should I start to collect data on the times when the children harass us and wait until there are several catalogued incidents before taking further action?

In a 'normal' situation, I know I should first contact the parents and request that they stop their children from harassing us when we are in our garden. However - and this is the real sticking point here - I feel unable to do this for fear of stirring things up with them further. I'm currently at the point where I wait until 'the coast is clear' (ie neighbours not around) to enter and leave our home, so as to avoid any kind of encounter with them.

If I take things further formally, will the police say that I should have initially approached the parents myself?

No, you don't have to approach the parents if it will escalate the problem. You are doing the right thing by not retaliating.
What the children are doing is an invasion of your privacy as well.

It would always be prudent to try to resolve the issue with the parents themselves first but it sounds like it has already gone beyond that.

Keep a diary certainly as it will help you show the Police how much of a problem it is.

Filming is a good idea and will possibly deter them though in my experience you may get an immediate complaint to the Police about "she's filming my children: she's a paedophile" crap.

Such a tough one, I really feel for you!

One the one hand ignoring them until they get bored sounds like a good course of action. Bullies soon move on if they don't get a reaction.

But on the other hand I would be seriously pissed off about it and want to prosecute them somehow!

Get your hose out and " accidently" hose the little fuckers down.

Much as you want to, I don't think you should assault the children to get at the parents.

Yes. Whilst in my imagination, I am taking all kinds of revenge, in reality I don't want to put myself in the wrong at all.

I'm not sure they WILL get bored, as they've sustained aggravating us for some time now, latterly, by trespassing in the field backing our gardens and then staring and shouting over the fence, pulling parts of it down etc every time we're in the garden and also when we're in the house, as all our rooms are at the back of the house. They've also used their trampoline as a means of seeing over the fence and of course for shrieking for hours at a time, as they bounce.

I've just spent an ENORMOUS amount on screening trees whcih will be planted next week - for the trampoline issue. Bit I hadn't factored in the new 'viewing point' - the children climbing quite high in the huge beech tree. Our screening trees won't be able to be planted where their viewpoint is here.

So I may just erect something to try to screen them out at that side...though this would be illegally increasing the height of our boundary (they must be climbing at least 10 ft off the ground). My fear is that as they get older, they'll climb higher and that wehn they have friends round - which is often, they'll reignite their interest in climbing and looking over each time.

I also wouldn't discount the dad building them a tree house with a look out expressly for the purpose of giving them ease of view. This is exactly the kind of thing he'd do.

I also spent enormous amounts on fencing off our lovely field view, as the children kept trespassing there too and all in all have now spent VAST amounts that I can ill afford, just to try to get some privacy in the garden. Each time, they've outwitted us. As you can imagine, I'm seething with rage and very stressed.

You shouldn't have to be doing all that. Any chance of moving?

Solo - what you're doing isn't working

Unless you report them and their parents to the police for harassment then they are just going to carry on doing it.

That's my last word on the subject as I'm starting to get frustrated! :o

Cammellia, no plans to move from now till I die/ retire. So somehow I'll have to find a way of managing the situation.

Thnaks again for your input, Ladybiscuit. I can understand your frustration. I just find it difficult to up the ante, as my default position generally is to ignore, walk away, not confront. When I have confronted the situation (on three occasions across the summer, having 'encounters' with the woman twice and her husband once) I felt v anxious and threatened and got v upset afterwards.

On one of those occasions, she told me that the entire neighbourhood was against my family and I and whilst I know this can't possibly be true, I found myself feeling quite paranoid in the streets and at the local shops, wondering who was whispering about me behind my back and what she'd said about us.

I'm single - without family except my sons and not much time to socialise. She's married, with her parents and inlaws still alive and around and other relatives and lots and lots of local friends. The situation makes me feel more isolated and threatened.

However, I don't think the police will take much notice. They tend to have far more important things to do. I haven't ruled out trying to have an informal chat with the local community police officer however and I think I'll also 'sound out' the situation with the policeman husband of a friend of mine too and see what he thinks.

Currently, I'm favouring the idea of extended height privacy trellis - not strictly legal - at the part of my fence where the children are climbing their tree and looking over.

We plan to get a puppy next year and may train it to bark selecitively only when people climb the tree next door . However, it'll be a soppy little golden retriever, so unlikely to scare them off!

Heightened fence (over 2 metres) would be legal with planning permission.

I don't know if I mentioned this on your last thread about this but have you had a look at the gardenlaw website on their forum.

Lots of info on CCTV etc and how to deal with bullying shits like this.

You have my sympathies, my advice? Go to the police.