Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Flip

1 2 3

Original poster

Help - my mum (seller) has damaged house between exchange and completion who is liable

59 replies

Loujalou · 09/09/2010 15:41

Sorry for the long title but basically my mum left the tap on in her bathroom over night and it dripped all the way into the kitchen below.

This was yesterday. She was due to complete tomorrow and this happened yesterday.

She is being made to pay the cost of fixing it but it was my understanding that you need buildings insurance at the point of exchange (buyer) and the buyer is responsible. The buyers solicitor is threatening to cancel the completion if my mum doesn't pay £600.

Help!

OP posts:

LostArt · 09/09/2010 16:32

I wouldn't have thought that the buyers could cancel at this late stage. I don't understand why they don't want your mother to go through her insurance.

PatriciaHolm · 09/09/2010 16:34

If she's exchanged already, her buyers can't just "cancel completion" - they are legally bound to complete, or technically your Mum can sue them to ensure they do so. They don't really have a legal right to do anything against your Mum, and if she moves out leaving the property in the state it is in now, there is little they can do about it. This is why buyers have to insure the buildings from exchange - mortgage providers have to be sure the property is still worth what they are lending on it right up until completion.

However, that wouldn't be the morally right thing to do. If I was your Mum, I would be saying yes, happy to get this sorted through insurance. If they're not happy with that, well, there isn't really much they can do.

Original poster

Loujalou · 09/09/2010 16:40

Thanks to those who understand what I am trying to say.

My mum's sister - who neither my mum or I are speaking to (whole other thread - but hence why I posted on here) was a barrister and she has just got back to my brother to say:

"My understanding accords with the position as stated by the CAB - the buyer has the responsibility from exchange. Your mum should insist her solicitor makes this clear. Should the solicitor fail to do so, and your mum suffers any loss as a result, the solicitor will be liable as her conduct will amount to professional negligence."

OP posts:

BreevandercampLGJ · 09/09/2010 16:40

I blame Blairs "entitled" culture.

LIZS · 09/09/2010 16:41

No they can't just cancel completion but there may be something in the contract that the property condition should be as at exchange. Presumably they would like it sorted asap ie before they have to live in the affected room and insurer may take longer (send an assessor get several quotes etc). How they know it will cost £600 is anyone's guess have they seen the damage or she had any estimates yet ? Has she discussed it with her insurer ?

LostArt · 09/09/2010 16:45

What does your mum's solicitor say?

I can understand that the buyers don't want to move into a house with damage, but your mum paying £600 isn't going to get it sorted any quicker.

Original poster

Loujalou · 09/09/2010 16:46

My aunt did know Mr Blair and Cherie as they were in the same chambers. She disliked him - before he was PM she said he was the most right wing person she had met

My mum's next door neighbour is a builder and he went round this morning to give a quote for the insurance. Its still not going to be dry for a few days - I would have thought.

OP posts:

goingbacktowork · 09/09/2010 18:09

can't they bring in dehumidifyers to dry it out - this is often what happens after floods.

LauraNorder · 09/09/2010 18:12

We were told to get buildings insurance as soon as we exchanged (Dec 2009) incase a situation like this happened so I guess they are liable but I am no expert.

nancydrewrocked · 09/09/2010 18:20

You mum is legally responsible.

The reason why the buyers have to take insurance from exchange is an entirely seperate issue and does not negate your mothers responsibility at all.

However it is a matter for your mum whether she wishes to make a claim on her insurance. If exchange has already taken place then the buyers are legally obliged to complete on the date agreed regardless of the situation with the kitchen - although your mum should be aware that if the house is not habitable in anyway she may be liable for costs associated with that.

If the buyers have not yet exchanged (even if it is the day they have marked to exchange) then they can indeed pull out and in those circumstances your mum may decide that it is appropriate to pay the £600 in order to ensure the sale is not lost.

mranchovy · 09/09/2010 18:23

I think anyone considering advising here would do well to refer to subclause 5.1 of the standard conditions of sale and its inclusion or otherwise in the contract. And also consider the position in tort.

nancydrewrocked · 09/09/2010 18:29

mranchovy what a very helpful post perhaps you could have set out for those who don't know what that means?

nancydrewrocked · 09/09/2010 18:33

But in case mranchovy doesn't return section 5.1 refers to the sellers obligation to transfer the property in the same state on completion as it was on exchange, meaning that the seller retains responsibility for the property between exchange and completion.

Although this is quite interesting it is actually not entirely relevant as according to the OP exchange has not yet happened.

Original poster

Loujalou · 09/09/2010 18:35

Exchange has happened. I have stated that in previous posts. She exchanged last week and completes tomorrow.

OP posts:

nancydrewrocked · 09/09/2010 18:40

Loujalou - sorry misunderstood.

Your mum needs to deal with this before a row starts between the two sides - once her solicitor becomes involved in arguing this point the costs are going to go up substantially and that £600 will look cheap.

TheNextMrsDepp · 09/09/2010 18:45

We moved into our current house about 18 months ago. Between exchange and completion we had a call from our vendors to say that the boiler had packed up. Legally they could probably have skipped out of the house and left it for us to fix, but they took the moral view that leaving a family with three young kids to move into an unheated house in the coldest January since records began would not be a good thing. The vendor kindly suggested we split the cost (as we had the benefit of a new boiler) and he paid about £1000 towards it, which was about two-thirds of the cost. Very decent. The first person inside the house on completion day was a plumber and we had heating by the evening.

Your mum should fix the problem.

Original poster

Loujalou · 09/09/2010 18:45

She is going to pay the money but when she signs is going to put something (although what has now slipped my mind) to say that she is not happy. There is no way she will stop the sale going through as she is getting a very good price and that house causes her far too much stress....

Anyway maybe she will talk to her sister about it. Its unfortunate they don't have the best of relationships.

OP posts:

Original poster

Loujalou · 09/09/2010 18:48

MrsDepp if you look at the thread she was happy to put it through her insurance - lose her no claim discount and pay the £350. Its the buyers who want to do the work up front and not involve the insurance. This will cost more. Also, if something does happen the seller does have to inform the sellers what has happened and not just skip out of the house. Which my mum has done.

OP posts:

nancydrewrocked · 09/09/2010 19:01

Maybe your mum ought to just speak to her solicitor rather than your Aunt who appears to be giving unsound advice?

Exchange has occurred so both parties are now contractually obliged and neither can stop completion at this stage.

If the conveyancer has used the standard conditions of sale (and they may have not) in the contract then your mother is permitted to claim on her insurance. She should just go ahead and do so.

TheNextMrsDepp · 09/09/2010 19:03

No, I realise your mum is doing the decent thing, I was just giving a "buyer's perspective".

I think, as someone has pointed out, she needs to decide quickly if she wants to get involved in a potentially costly solicitor's debate or whether she just bites the bullet and pays the extra.

A nightmare, either way, hope she gets it sorted out.

LIZS · 10/09/2010 08:37

I think also she should ask for something in writing to say that the payment is in full and final settlement, otherwise they could have other, potentially more costly, works done and chase her.

Original poster

Loujalou · 10/09/2010 08:39

Liz hence why my mum wanted the insurance involved. I think she signed something yesterday and she completes today.

I have all my fingers and toes crossed.

Thanks for all your help - I will give you an update after I see her later.

PS She is moving in until she buys her new place. But that is a whole different problem

OP posts:

30andMerkin · 10/09/2010 08:45

Wow this is interesting. We've just completed, after a very long delay between exchange and completion. We had a lot of very thorough legal negotiations, and at no point did anyone suggest to us we should have buildings insurance. Fortunately there was no issue - I'll remember this next time!

But if there had been, surely we were contractually obliged to buy the house in the same condition as we last viewed it, and that if it had burnt down, flooded etc in the interim we would have been able to counter-sue for our deposit back?

Just wondering.

Original poster

Loujalou · 10/09/2010 08:52

Merkin you need insurance between exchange and completion. That is standard. Google it! I also quoted the MD of a top brokers who said you would still have to buy the house if it had burnt down - hence the need for insurance to cover any eventuality. The buyers did have insurance and should have claimed through that although my mum had kept her insurance.

My DH used to work in mortgages and says this is all true.

In fact its an important lesson if it wasn't for my DH I wouldn't have known this and in fact didn't do it on the first two properties I bought.

OP posts:

MeganMog · 10/09/2010 09:01

My friend has just had a similar situation. During the night before completion, thieves removed some York stone from the patio - causing several thousand pounds worth of damage. She was expecting to cover it under her insurance, but her insurance company say not - apparently it is the BUYER's insurance that covers it. I suspect her (the seller's) insurance company would refuse to pay in the circumstances as they are not legally obliged to.

Your mother could offer to pay the Buyer's excess as a gesture of good will - but the whole point of insurance is to cover you for accidents/theft. This was an accident - your mother did not deliberately leave the tap on. If the legal position is that the buyer's insurance cover it, then that is what should happen - that's what it's there for...

Flip

1 2 3

Swipe left for the next trending thread