Banking/legal experts please: fraudulent withdrawals from sick elderly grandparents account by DH's aunt

[pecanpie]

If you read my threads from over the weekend, you'll start to piece together a rather nasty situation. This is one of the most hideous pieces of the puzzle and it is heart breaking.

DH's grandparents had over £10k (more like £14k just 6 months ago) in a standard bank account. It was their nest egg which would carry them through their old age, pay for care and regular bills e.g. utilities.

We've discovered since his grandmother's death that his aunt had taken her switch/visa debit card and has been using this to empty the bank account. £60 here and there from cash machines could be accepted as having been done on her behalf, but having spoken to a mobile betting site which appears on the 88 year old woman's latest bank statement, over £7000 has gone to them in mobile phone based bets (and with £0 in winnings).

Money has also been transferred across to something called Cashoo.eu which appears to be some sort of service for anonymously moving money from the grandmother's account - we're not quite sure where yet.

The aunt also used to take DH's grandfather to his building society. He's quite infirm and he was of the belief that while he waited in the car, she was transferring money from his savings account to his current account to pay direct debits and taking out some cash for him as he likes to have some money in his pocket. He wasn't aware that she wasn't transferring money to pay off the direct debits, that she was skimming off some money to put in her own pocket and on one occasion had taken out £1400 for her own use. The building society had queried a few payments and had been out with her to the car to check he wanted to sign to withdraw the money. On Friday he claimed that he had no idea that she was taking the money out for herself and no idea about the £1400 withdrawal.

When DH broke the news to him yesterday he was distraught. He can't pay for his wife's headstone, there are a number of other direct debits which have bounced for his care, utility bills etc and his wife's pension payment which must be paid back has already been spent by DH's aunt.

The police were called to report a fraud, but today when they spoke to the grandfather, he claimed that he knew she was withdrawing the money.

Can we/the bank do anything directly, even if only to pursue the fraudulent online/mobile payments or is it all at DH's grandfather's discretion?

I'm not sure what you could do legally if you DH grandfather was of sound mind. However to protect him and his assets from further alleged abuse I would contact social services and they are obliged to protect 'vulnerable adults' such as your GF in law. NHS Direct have an 'information service' which may help and advise, but the citizens advice bureau also have solicitors to consult. I'm sure there are other agencies. Oh.... Age concern for definite.!

ok am not a solicitor or banker but have come across a few similar cases in my line of work. Police will probably not want to investigate unless dgf will definately confirm he did not agree to withdrawals. Quite often elderly people will decline to cooperate with the police if it means their carers will be investigated/ prosecuted. I assume this is their daughter who has done this? Are there any other family members who can step in to support your dgf as its going to be very stressful for him? Is there any way aunt could repay any of the money?
One thought though was that if bank knew dgm was dead they should have cancelled all her cards and closed her a/cs atraightaway. You may be able to claim they were negligent if they didnt do this and any of these iffy transactions were after she died. Also if aunt used dgm cards knowing dgm was dead it may be a straightforward fraud on the bank and dgf may not have to cooperate in its investigation iyswim.

You could also phone your local social services to see if they have a pova section (protection of vulnerable adults) and they could possibly help. Financial abuse of the elderly is a recognised issue and many ss depts have teams in place to help.
There are a few practical things you could consider as long as dgf is in agreement, like changing all bank and b/soc a/cs and making sure aunt does not have access. You could consider if another (more trustworthy)relative could be a co signatory on accounts or even get power of attorney. Dgf would need to agree to this. If he is not able to make this decision then an application to the court of protection could be made.

Social services had apparently already labelled gps as vulnerable adults. They have done nothing. There have been a lot more issues over the past week with the aunt that social services could have prevented/rectified but they don't seem to actually act, they only keep case files.

DGF did call the police back because he realised that he needs to report it, but noone has got back to him yet and now he's in hospital for about a week. What I can't understand is why they interviewed an elderly man who is hard of hearing over the phone instead of coming to his flat .

We don't think there have been any transactions since grandmother's death, but she was heavily drugged up on pain relief and having large doses of chemo during the time where her bank account was being used for online/mobile transactions. Given her age, could we suggest that the bank has been negligent for not querying this and other abnormal behaviour on the account?

Going forward, we have already sorted out power of attorney, problem is, accounts have been pretty much cleaned out and along with other sources of finance, the current count of theft/fraud is about £25k. Heart breaking.

I would certainly get in touch with the bank, though again would they discuss this with you as you are not the account holder? If you have power of attourney does it include this bank account (ie in joint names dgm and dgf?) in which case they might. How much responsibility does a bank have for monitoring transactions if they are not aware of personal circumstances? Contact the Financial Services Authority regarding the banks actions to see if they can help, they have a number :- 020 7066 1000.

Have the police said there is no case? Get the crime number, phone up and ask to speak to an Inspector. Does this Aunt have assets that can be reclaimed in the event of a conviction? Even if found guilty what would be the outcome? ?? prison for a first offence? And would she be able to pay the money back if she spent it all. On principle I would push this as far as possible as she has allegedly behaved appallingly, but I think you've got an uphill battle on your hands.
Social services should be contacted again if the aunt is still influencing DGF.
Good luck

What a horrible situation for you and dgf.

I agree with beammeupscotty and go back to the bank - perhaps threaten to write to one of the papers investiative columns like jessica investigates at the Telegraph or similar.

Also press the police for furthe action as they dont relly seem to be giving it very high priority, phone or write to most senior office at the station. if dgf is "confused" then perhaps he wasnt able to give proper consent to aunts actions and as such police may not need his consent, similarly with regard to dgm, if she was that ill then she couldnt have been able to give meaningful consent to aunt, and that should give them grounds to investigate/ prosecute.

Also you could contact your local councillor as the ss appear to have sat on their hands.

You could also go to the elderly charities aas I am sure that (sadly) they come across these types of things fairly often.

Aunt has no assets, she just bleeds other people dry. Bank can't help because it looks like she had their PIN which means gm must have given it to her. Withdrawals were regular but small amounts. Aunt is no longer around - no money = no point - she only ever turns up when she needs financial help (pretty often because she rarely has a job).

Speaking to the police is on the backburner for the rest of the week as GF is in hospital. Will speak to MiL about following up on the ss front - making notes but doing little else is pretty useless.

Thankfully MiL is in a position to be able to settle outstanding bills and she's managed to get the bank to reimburse all of their overdraft charges which puts the account back into credit.

Try speaking to Action on Elder Abuse - they will have a lot of information on financial abuse like this.

I have seen a lot of stories like this and it makes my blood boil. That said, I look at my DSs and I think "Although you are gorgeous and lovely and would never do anything like this, if you did when you were men I know I would find it impossible to grass you up to the police."