Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Original poster

Advice need for friend on gaining custody of her children, she lives in Denmark they live in UK with their father.

21 replies

triplets · 05/08/2010 22:39

Hi, my friend who is Danish remarried in Denmark where she has lived for the past 3 years. Her two children live with their father and new wife here in UK.Both the children want to live with her, they are 12 and 10 and the whole situation is awful, she brought them back y/day after 2 week stay for the wedding and they were very distraught. Any advice please on how she might get custody? He has custody, low income, if he fought her would he get legal aid? Sorry, as I don`t know much about this type of situation.

OP posts:
arfarfa · 06/08/2010 10:30

She will need to apply to court for residency.
As the children are aged 12 and 10, their views will be given considerable weight, although placing them in a situation where they have to choose between parents is hardly appealing. As her ex is on a low income, the odds are that he would get some form of legal aid. However, she will need to take a couple of points on board;

-children often say and do things in order to give a pleasing impression to whichever parent they are with at the time

-the non resident parent is often perceived by the child as being more 'fun' to be with, often because it's the resident parent who has to impose routine and some discipline into their lives

-they are probably settled in their schools, and moving them may well prove to be detrimental to their educations

The one thing which I keep coming back to is why on earth did she move back to Denmark, whilst leaving her children in the UK? Was she placing her own need for a new relationship/fresh start above that of her childrens needs for a fully engaged and committed mother?
I'm sorry if I sound a little harsh, but I just cannot envisage any circumstance in which I would be able to move hundreds of miles away from my children. Wherever they are, is where I have to be. There just isn't any alternative. Has she considered moving back to the UK? If she did, she may be able to successfully argue for shared residence.

mumblechum · 06/08/2010 13:09

I agree with arfarfa who sounds like she knows her stuff.

GypsyMoth · 06/08/2010 13:11

i'm not sure their thoughts would carry enough weight to gain residency here....

they are still quite young....

GypsyMoth · 06/08/2010 13:12

and how does your friend propose to facilitate contact? she would most likely need to bear the brunt of costs

also,if their father is low income,then her maintenence would be low too

mumblechum · 06/08/2010 13:14

What I'm seeing more and more lately is courts ordering Cafcass to prepare "wishes and feelings" reports rather than full S7 reports. In other words, before going into all the ins and outs, history, he says she says type stuff, they'll ask the children how they feel about any potential change of residency.

I personally don't like this current fashion because usually Cafcass end up doing a S7 anyway and it just increases the timescale

FannyWaglour · 06/08/2010 13:18

They need to be 16 in order to be able to decide for themselves. They are too young to know their own best.

Why did your friend abandon her children and go live abroad? This will carry more weight than anything the kids will say.

The childrens father have been providing them with a stable upbringing, with every day care. What has your friend done?

Is it in the childrens best interest to uproot them from their life, their father, family and friends, their school, to go and live with a mum who suddenly decided on a whim she wants her children back, and start a new school in a new country, with a new language and a new culture? What if she changes her mind again a few years down the line? Will she send them back?

mumblechum · 06/08/2010 13:32

I agree with others that if she wants residency she's going to have to move back to the UK.

GypsyMoth · 06/08/2010 14:29

No fanny they don't need have to be 16. Cafcass and court can't enforce a reluctant 13 year old to go anywhere!

My dd's chose no contact at ages 11 and 13...... No problems

QS · 06/08/2010 15:15

"Cafcass and court can't enforce a reluctant 13 year old to go anywhere!"

Especially not overseas with a mum who abandoned them.

ProfessorLaytonIsMyLoveSlave · 06/08/2010 15:23

Leaving aside whether she "abandoned" her children or not or whether this is a "whim" (I don't see anything in the OP where we could conclude that)...

If their father has been the primary caregiver for the last three years at least and she lives abroad she is pretty unlikely to be granted residency. Even children who tell one parent that they "want to live with them" are often less direct when talking to a CAFCASS officer.

It's not necessarily impossible, especially if there are some additional factors involved that you haven't mentioned in your OP, but she'd need a good solicitor who would be honest with her about her chances.

GypsyMoth · 06/08/2010 15:27

they had just had a holiday in Denmark with their mum.....of course they would say we want to stay.....ask them again mid september when the summer is a distant memory and they are in the middle of all the school dramas and looking forward to the new x factor!!

mumoverseas · 06/08/2010 17:54

Agree with mumblechum. I always agree with her Grin

triplets did you manage your few days away with your DH? I do hope so x

mumblechum · 06/08/2010 19:25

Nice to see you back MOS

Original poster
triplets · 06/08/2010 23:37

Golly, all this talk is new to me, what is Cafcass and an S7??Confused I take on board all you have all said, I am not sure 100% it would be the right move for the children, as you all say they have a life here, but I see unhappy children esp the daughter who is very much needing her mum. I cant say why she left and went back to the Denmark, only that her life was hell here a couple of years ago and she had ovarian cancer, was on her own and went back to live with her mum and sister. The children have a good family there and both can speak Danish. Its difficult. I cannot see that she could poss return to live in the UK as she has now remarried to a fellow Dane who has a 9yr old son, the three children btw all get on tog very well. Money for her is not an issue either, she has it. Yes, we did get away thank you MOS, how did you know? The kids had a fantastic time at PGL, and we got 4 nights of peace, very much needed, we didnt do much as Harry was not well enough, but it was just so nice to have time together and relax .

OP posts:
CarGirl · 06/08/2010 23:50

well if she returned due to ill health then the courts may be more understanding especially if the children are unhappy living with their father. All she can do is apply to the courts.

Presumably she would be happy to let the dc spend much of their school hols with their father? Can she start increasing contact by coming over here for long weekends and seeing the dc in the UK and having them in the school hols as much as possible or will her ex not allow that?

What is her current contact with them?

Original poster
triplets · 07/08/2010 00:17

She drives from Denmark every 4 weeks, spends 3/4 nights each time. Ex won`t allow her to have the children o/night, so she picks them up after school and can have the until 7pm, if its a w/end she can have them from 9am -7pm. She is in contact daily.

OP posts:
CarGirl · 07/08/2010 00:18

I think she just has to go through the court system and hope the very least she will end up with is increased contact.

mumoverseas · 07/08/2010 07:26

triplets, sorry, didn't mean to confuse you, I was on your thread a few weeks ago about where to go in Sussex but was having a temporary breakdown/namechange at that time (phoenix) but am now back to the real me Grin

Why won't he let your friend have the DC overnight? Seems a bit daft if he has allowed them to stay with her in Denmark for a few weeks?

ProfessorLaytonIsMyLoveSlave · 07/08/2010 10:35

As a starting point she could apply for overnight contact when she is in the UK -- that would probably be far easier to get.

Original poster
triplets · 09/08/2010 22:22

Hi all thanks for info, her ex is really awful at times, I used to be quite fond of him, and I am not saying the break up was all his fault, he remarried quite quickly afterwards, with 2 years and seems happy enough. He refuses to let her have them overnight here, he also recently took the kids up to Gatwick as she flew in to pick them up, when she met them, guess what, he forgot to bring their passports! So she had a round trip for nothing. There are lots of things but its not my business,I just care about the kids, they are both such good kids and are really struggling.

OP posts:
CarGirl · 10/08/2010 09:53

Hmmmm she needs to go through the courts here and fight to increase contact including overnights. She has a strong case that she needs it because of his past behaviour that it is in the dc best interests especially as they want more time with her.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread