Which child to put in front seat

[Flymeaway4]

Baby #3 on the way. When this one arrives we’ll also have a 4yr old (very nearly 5) and a 3yr old. We will have baby and 3yr old in rear facing seats and need to buy a HBB for the eldest. Visited a baby shop today and they’ve said we won’t fit 3 across the back, so we’ll need 1 in the front.

So, which one is safest in the front seat? Newborn in a rear facing seat (air bag can be deactivated), middle child in a rear facing seat or eldest in a forward facing HBB?

In case it’s relevant, car is an Audi Q6 e-tron and car seats are joie i-level and joie i-spin (HBB still to be bought)

Thanks

Well you need to do a bit more research then. The link does back up what I am saying as it suggests and I quote “It is safer for your children to travel in the rear seats than the front.” You seem to have an issue reading and have confirmation bias.

You don’t need a third row for 3 kids and I didn’t say this. There are cars that have 3 isofix (3 adult size seats) in the second row that can fit your Joie I spin (we have 2 Joie I spins and 1 HBB on our second row).

Good luck with your research.

I think you need to check your comprehension! I've never said it's not safer, the entire point of my post was because I was trying to find this solution, but had been told it's not possible in my car. I've taken well thought out advice from another poster and will be seeking a second opinion on that before I make a decision. It also says its safer and not that putting one in the front is inherently unsafe.

What car do you have that allows that? That would be a much more helpful post than your condescending and judgemental previous ones.

Throughout my research, I've also now come to the conclusion that my eldest, at not yet 5, isn't ready for a HBB yet, that's too young and she will be safer rear facing for a while still (so I am clearly more than capable of changing my mind about something when presented with new information). There is no research out there about whether a HBB in the back seat is safer than rear facing in the front, so I'll have to make a personal judgement on that instead.

Too bad, OP doesn't have that model.

We had a q5. Sadly had to sell it. Have bought a 7 seater hydandai Santa Fe. Have 3 children under 5. I highly highly recommend, it’s been a great switch. We didn’t feel okay with a child in front seat for motorway journeys

@Flymeaway4

Have you thought about a multimac OP?

https://www.multimac.com/multimac-range/

Not cheap but much less expensive than a new car and fit children from babies to 12 years old (and can swap into a new car).

@BertieBotts just looking at your post in more detail.

Just wondered why you said a joie I-level shouldn’t be used in the front please? We have the LX base with it, so it is isofix.

Definitely see what you’re saying about turning the airbag on and off though, I guess it’s something we’d have to be very careful about, if we take this route.

Oops - sorry see this has already been suggested.

Do you have isofix in the front seat? Most cars don't, so you have to seatbelt fit any car seat in the front. If yours does have isofix in the front then you can put it there I might actually consider the Joie Spin in the front so you can retain the spin function but it might be too high to see the mirror properly.

With the auto airbag deactivation, I believe that is only with car seats from the Audi dealer that contain a transponder unit in them. As far as I know there is no way for the car to "detect" that the isofix is in use - it's just a metal bar. So cars which have the automatic thing rely on a signal from the transponder, and those have been known to fail.

Yes, we do have isofix there. Good point about the spin mechanism too (although it may also cause arguments between our eldest children!).

understood about the airbag auto deactivation, good to know, thank you

We went to a carseat safety clinic and were strongly advised no child in the front seat until they were 12/13 depending on weight/height. Apparently it's banned in many countries for children to be in the front seat until then, even if there's an option to turn off the airbag. Friends went to a different safety day/course and were told the same. They got the multimac. I wonder if that would work for you? Our friends love it. I have to say it looks fab!

I know finances can make it so difficult to get a new vehicle. Best of luck.

Sounds like you’ve decided already that you are keeping the car even though the obvious answer is to change it.

The boot is huge in many 7 seaters, and you don’t actually need the third row anyway. I wouldn’t be putting a newborn in the front, no way.

OP already explained several posts ago that they can't change the car without considerable hassle and expense because it is a lease with nearly 5 years left on it.

OP - double check in the car manual or contact Audi, but I'm 99% sure it's only Audi branded seats (which are normally extremely overpriced slightly out of date models of any normal seat you can buy) which will auto deactivate.

Glad someone agrees with me here about that. OP has been quite rude about it.

Respectfully, "Change the car" is not the obvious answer if the OP's third post says "New car not an option".

It’s always an option, just because you have started a new PCP or lease scheme doesn’t mean you have to stick with it. Yes it will cost money I’m sure but would you put a price on your child’s safety. I was in the exact same situation as the OP…. What did I do? I changed my car 🤔

The OP has presumably considered and discounted it though, given she literally says it's not an option. We have to assume she knows her financial picture and other factors better than you do, so it's ridiculous to continue to maintain it's an option.

And everyone puts a price on their child's safety, surely - we all draw the line at a certain budget for both car seats and cars. It's a carefully-balanced compromise for most people. That's great that you were able to change your car, and chose to do so, but (and I sort of can't believe I'm still having to say this), the OP has decided is not an option, and that's her prerogative. Air travel is statistically the safest form of travel, but presumably you haven't invested in a private jet?

Ridiculous comparison, private jet? Now you really are clutching at straws 🤣 you know if it’s a finance issue she could get a cheaper model.

You might think it's a ridiculous extreme (that's the whole point I'm making!!) but it's not a ridiculous comparison - It's just taking the concept of "You can't put a price on children's safety" to it's logical extreme.

I'm just baffled by posters who continually bang the drum for something the OP has clearly, unequivocally, discounted. You see it on threads where posters ask for advice on things like closest school options - it'll say in the OP that moving is definitely not an option, and there's always someone along to say "You'll absolutely have to move, no other option". I just don't understand why people can't trust that the parameters an OP has put in place are there for a reason.

I am quite risk averse when it comes to road safety and I wouldn’t put any child in the front seat. Putting the eldest there with the airbag off is still a huge risk in the event of an accident. I have a tall 10 year old and they are allowed in the front only for short journeys. I don’t allow it if we are to travel on motorways or A roads. Just not worth the risk in case of a head on collision.

in your place i would change the car seats to fit all 3 at the back. Its a worthwhile compromise even if its at a cost / inconvenient seats.

When I looked maxi cosi was one of the narrower brands generally

I see they do a maxi cosi nomad xl which is a folding travel seat. It’s is harness to 18kg and then seatbelt narrow high back booster. This could work well for 4/5 year old in middle. And you can use for them all over the years when travelling as compact.

Get a non swivel rear facing for 2 year old as again more compact. Baby can use after so you will get several years out of it.

Thank you @ellatrixb for your support. And I haven't been rude, I've acted very reasonably since being called crazy for considering it! There is so much conflicting information around, as this post shows, that none of what I've asked is unreasonable and I should never have been ridiculed or vilified for trying to come to a balanced, practical and safe solution for our family.

It would cost £9k to hand the car back early, and we need an electric to get my salary down, otherwise we'll pay an extra £10k a year in nursery fees. That is not an option!

Did any of you even read the link from @BertieBotts ? It all makes perfect, logical sense to to me. I'm very open to having my mind changed by statistics, facts and logic (this research has already done that, in that I will be keeping my eldest rear facing for a while longer still), but so far nobody has shown me any. Please do show me, if you can!

If the air bag is switched off and studies have shown it won't accidentally go off in an accident, then why exactly is the front unsafe? Even if you can't show me a study or a statistic on it (I've looked and found nothing), then explain logically please. In my head, it's as far from any potential point of impact as they would be in the rear and if anything the front dashboard and sides are more reinforced than the back is anyway, as that seat is more often occupied that the rear ones, so manufacturers invest in better protection.

So what exactly makes it unsafe? Nobody so far has been able to say why. And, if you can show me this, which then is safer for a 4yr old; forward facing in the.back, or rear facing in the front? As that would be the decision I'd need to make. And why?

Oh ps, if you go in maxi cosi website it seems to show what car seats allow for three in a row.

they do many which are 44cm. So you should be able to fit 3

You are talking BS, I know exactly what I’m
talking about and have very recent experience of this exact scenario.

So from the OP post below I can tell OP earns more than 100k and is on a salary sacrifice scheme, most likely with either Tusker or Octopus who are the 2 most common ones.
She could be covered under lifestyle protection which would allow her to swap the car.
Other salary sacrifice options are to pay more into a pension scheme (which I’m sure Op is aware of) than the car scheme so you don’t necessarily need have an electric car scheme to save the money for 10k worth of nursery fees, in fact the car salary sacrifice is probably not the most savvy thing to do when you add up all the costs. Have a look on money saving experts OP, there are alternatives and it probably won’t cost you 9-10k.

Okeydokies!

The idea that the front is less safe is basically because it's closer to where an impact would be if you have a frontal crash, which is the most common kind statistically (because in any crash, at least one car is crashing from the front)

However as the Swedish blog says, because of this car manufacturers and safety standards have concentrated so much on safety for the driver + front passenger that it's essentially an outdated concern. And that blog was 15 years old - so it's even more outdated now. However the "back is safest" has lived on and in a lot of countries it's actually illegal for children to sit in the front.

The other problem from a child's point of view is that airbags are really catastrophic for children. They inflate with such force that it's essentially like being punched in the chest. That amount of force on a much smaller body and usually in a vulnerable area like the head is a big problem and has caused deaths. (esp when a lot of preteen children, prime age for being thought "old enough" to sit in the front are bent over looking at a phone or tablet screen).

Disable the airbag and you're basically undoing some of the safety features that make the front safer for adults, which puts a question mark over the "front is safer because more safety features" argument. So I can see why the argument remains that the front is less safe. On balance it probably is. An ERF seat with airbag disabled is probably a weird outlier to this.