How do you SUCCESSFULLY split yourselves 4/5/6/however many ways? Please share as I seem to be failing

[PacificDogwood]

So. We are having problems and I don't know how to help us all to move forward. DH and I have 4 DS, now aged 8.7, 7.7, 3.7 and 20 months. DH works full-time, sometimes more, lots of late nights and overnights. I work 3 days/week.

We have recently changed our childcare from CM to nanny which I appreciate has been a big change for the boys, but the problems with fighting, physical violence between the boys, bad language and utter, utter misery from DS2 has been going on for several months and is getting worse .

DS2 lacks confidence

He has become very angry, aggressive and really difficult to live with.

I make a conscious effort to spend time with each boy seperately. We have restricted screen time for the 2 older (Lego Universe obsessives) ones. We have so far utterly failed to figure out WHY DS2 is so unhappy, so insecure ("I am stupid and ugly") and so angry all the time. He in particular cannot abide DS3 who is 4 years younger than him. He teases, hits, calls him names all the time - yes, he is a typical 3 year old and can be very annoying, but DS2 seeks him out in order to torment him. This then leads to WW3 which even 20 month old DS4 joins in . So far we have failed to find an activity that DS2 will go to that DS1 does not do.

So, how do you split yourselves all these ways, mother to several children, wife/partner, job, ageing parents, garden, pets - I feel a nervous breakdown coming on just writing it all down!

Any tips greatly appreciated. TIA.

[PacificDogwood]

Well, we had a couple of marginally less horrible days - I am easily pleased at the mo'.
Made the older 2 come out for a walk along the nearby river (with baby in pram in the hope he'd go to sleep - he eventually did). Whinge, whinge, moan, moan, all the way there: v v long, arduous walk of, oooh, 5 minutes FFS. In the sunshine. With welly boots on. I know, I know, the torture I put my children through .
Anyway, got to the spot I had aimed for, a little 'bay' with sandy 'beach' only to find that the river was so high (rain of biblical proportions here over night) that there was not much 'beach'. All my fault, of course

[4madboys]

another co-sleeper, feed to sleep, tandem feeder at times here, just muddled through it!

dd now doesnt bfeed but still sleeps in our bed, and slightly annoying at 11mths STILL has to be swaddled to sleep, so have to reswaddle her in the night when she wriggles out and wakes herself up

re clubs/activities for ds2, woodcraft folk? may or may not be one near you, never used them but some people like them! karate (i worry this may increase violence! but apparently its very good for self discipline) judo, gymnastics, swimming, anything arty, there are endless groups and activities its just finding them and havin gthe time/money to sort them being able to attend and managing to schedule it in with everything else!

like pacific no sleep training but i did have a bedtime routine and started off getting them down at say 9pm by 6mths ish and then gradually brought that forward a bit as they got older and more established sleep patterns.

[PacificDogwood]

4madboys (do you not need to change your name now ?), thanks for posting. I have admired you from afar on other threads.
It's the physical violence that really gets to me. And the swearing.
Dh and I don't hit. We don't swear unless alone. I do know were my boys have had some contact with bad language and sibling violence and have removed that contact - don't want to say more as some MNers know me and my circumstances in RL.
I have made an appointment to speak to DS2's teacher although there are apparently no concerns at school.
It does not help that DS1 is 'the bright one' - he IS, but DS2 is doing perfectly ok at school, just not in the kind of frighteningly stellar league as DS1 (a whole other issue). Like you, I am very conscious to not compare, but they do....

[PacificDogwood]

Yy to soft play hell.

Re sleep training: we never did anything you'd recognise as sleep training (well, I won't tell you about the pathetic attempt at CC with DS4... ), co-slept, fed to sleep et etc. But we always did have a very recognisable Bedtime. Not negotiable. I'd happily go to bed with whoever was not keen on going to bed - their bed, NOT mine. DS2 'got it' at 16 weeks , DS4 at 18 months , the others somewhere in the middle. And they don't come to our bedroom when they want anything - result! Downside is, if they have a nightmare or anything, WE have to get up and go to them - cold feet!

Hope you get some peace and quiet soon tonight. Have .

[4madboys]

its hard at times.

i am lucky that my elder two boys who are 12 and 9 are very different so have very different interests and activites, ds1 is into science and maths and computers so he does that kind of stuff after school.

ds2 is sports mad so does football and korfball, ds3 who is 6 (almost 7) goes to tennis and now also to korfball (but ds2 goes twice a week to korfball so there is only once when they go together)

ds4 is only 3 and has pre-school twice a week and then has me to himself with dd whilst the elder 3 are at school, we do stuff at home and the usual stuff like park, toddler groups etc.

dp and i take it in turns to take them out individually.

the elder 2 can fight, this evening they had an argument about when to turn out the light (they share a room) which ended in tears after they started throwing things at each other!

ds2 is currenlty having problems at school, they are wanting to asses him for add/adhd. and unfortunately his brother is and has always been mr perfect behaviour wise, we dont compare them really but other relatives do and i KNOW ds2 i seen as the naughty one :( he is LOVELY but there are some issues :(

interestingly ds3 is an angel at school but we are getting tantrums and tears at home over event he tiniest of things, and a point blank refusual to listen, i have just reinstated the naughty step for him for when he doesnt listen and today he sat and howled as i made him sit there for being mean to his baby sister. time will tell if it works, he has always been very good but there is some extra defiance and stroppiness going on at the moment.

ds4 who i s3, i lovely and cheeky and cute, but also VERY loud and a bit boisterous at times.

dd is the easy one, at 11mths, as long as she can see me she is a happy little thing (as long as i dotn change her nappy or try to get her dressed which results in a screaming fit)

sorry this is long, but i do think that however many you have you will still have issues, i know parents with only one or two who do and struggle just as much.

my boys can and do play together as well as fight and bicker, it really depends on the day tbh and there is no rhyme or reason to it, or that i have noticed anyway!

i just muddle along, try and give them all some one on one time, encourage them to be individuals and i will leave them to get on with some bickering, only stepping in when it gets violent at which point i seperate them and they all get time out, i dont apportion blame, esp if i havent seen it, i just tell them that its not acceptable and give them time out.

oh and i get them all in bed by 7:30-8pm so i can have a bit of 'me' time!

[immortalbeloved]

Pacific, sounds so full on, its no wonder youre stressed! I know it probably doesn't help, but with my lot (we call them 'the little ones' 'the boys' etc too lol) its not so much about the amount of time, just the thought of it iyswim? Sometimes my older ones don't want or need it but it helps that they know I will always find time for them when they need me, BUT it is a bit easier for me as the age gaps are more spread out so I do have time when the littlies are in bed or time for the toddler when the older ones are at school and the babys asleep etc ( I've got six from 15-9months)

[immortalbeloved]

I understand, teens , lack of sleep is so bloody awful. When I was bf'ing my younger ones in the night my patience with the older was sorely tested, they were pretty understanding but I felt awful

I really hope you start getting some sleep soon

[PacificDogwood]

X-post, teens. Oh my, sympathies re sleep. Thank goodness mine now all sleep - this time last year I was a basket-case due to sleep deprivation.

[PacificDogwood]

Thanks, immortal, I am sure you're right: it's the 1-on-1 time we are lacking. I just can't figure out when to fit it all in. And my 3 year old is utterly insane needing a lot of attention to stop him from killing himself. The younger toddler is still very attached to me: I cannot leave a room without him howling, on bad days I cannot turn my back on him. And I realise that the older 2 have been somewhat neglected in the last 3 or so years since the 'littlies' arrival.

Gah, even what we call them reflects how we lump them together: 'the boys' ie the older 2; 'the littlies' - selfexplanatory.

[immortalbeloved]

Unmumsnetty hugs to both of you, it can be so hard

I think age gaps play a huge part so op I can see why you're having a hard time at the moment

I wish I had some magic answers, what works for us is just lots of 'one on one' time, trying to have fun as a whole family and trying to focus extra tlc on the ones who seem to need it at any particular time. Sorry its not much help, just wanted to post in solidarity!

[PacificDogwood]

See, teens, that is not what I want to hear !

At least I am not alone - I struggle getting the different needs of my much closer age groups satisfied. Respect to you for doing the teenage and toddler thing at the same time. Can't be easy.

Now put that phone down and eat something. Something chocolatey nutritious.