How to help angry/unhappy/not confident DS2 aged 7 1/2 :-(??

[PacificDogwood]

For at least 6 months his 'default setting' is unhappy/hard done by/angry.
He picks on his brothers (older and younger; I have 4 boys), seeks nasty ways of upsetting them or ensuring they get in trouble (often I see it coming, but sometimes I don't).
He swears.
He shouts.
He slams doors/kicks furniture/hits and kicks DS1 8, DS3 3 and DS4 19 months !
He can be lovely which is why is horrible behavious upsets me most - if he can be nice with all the praise/pleasantness/approval that goes with the, why oh why does he seems to chose not to??

He was 9 weeks premature, but seems NT as far as I can tell.
He used to be the most placid of my lot.
I think he suffers because his older brother (there is only 1 year between them) is academically very bright and my fear is that he has chosen the 'bad boy' mould to stand out himself.

We had a horrible schoolrun yet again this morning, triggered by him punching and kicking DS1 over a school jumper (yes, we have more than one) which once DS1 had gone and got another one he than didn't want anymore.
I can feel myself tensing up when he enters a room because I know within seconds somebody is going to cry/shout or start fighting.

The others have their moments, don't get me wrong, they are normal kids and they fall out at times, but DS2 is something else.
It has an effect on the whole family and I am worried for him. He is so unhappy, dislikes himself ('I am stupid and ugly'), but seems to feel better when the things he feels he is entitled to, aren't delivered.

DH and I don't shout/swear (well, shout in extremis, but it's not our parenting tool of choice IYKWIM).
We don't hit.
When things are calm I try to spend extra time with him, talk to him, praise him.

I am not sure what else to do. School are aware of the confidence issues, academically he is doing fine, although not as phantastically well as DS1 who I am sure he is 'measuring' himself against - we don't.

We have tried to find an activity that he could go to that his brother is NOT going to, but he then says he is too shy and will not go/stay anywhere, even if I stay with him.

Any ideas?
Similar experiences and they 'grew out of it?'

[PacificDogwood]

Sorry for epic post and bump.

[PacificDogwood]

After-schoolrun-bump

[531800000008]

oh love, sounds hard

I am going to have a go at unpicking some of this for you:

okay

As you are already aware, it's very easy easy to fall into the negative trap - attention given for being ''naughty'' so reinforces the ''naughtiness''

So looking at ways of boosting confidence and self-esteem - boost by providing achievable tasks, start small and see how you go. eg measuring out ingredients for baking sessions, lay the table. Positive feedback (so ignore the clouds of flour/dropped egg/cutlery in the wrong place)

Think about flashpoints and what triggered them, see if you can steer round in future. This might mean doing school bags the night before, laying out uniform for each school age child after bath/shower (I know you've got work cut out with 4 children !)

When he hurts a sibling, what is the consequence? again, try to analyse what's in it for him, is it attention, you shouting, a big scene. How do you feel about changing your reaction to kicking/whatever - he may be too big to send to his room.

Having an able older sibling might well be a bit urgh for him ,you are right. He might not fancy cubs/scouts (not sure of ages tbh) but what about karate/martial arts where self-control is a vital part of the training? You or DH could join too?

I'll have a think and come back later

[PacificDogwood]

Thank you for your reply.

I am trying really hard to not make a big scene when he so obviously is trying to get the negative attention, but at the same time, I feel I have to keep the LOs 'safe'. DS3 cowers whenever DS2 comes towards him, expecting to be hit .
I also try to acknowledge how hard some things are on him, DS3 is indeed at times a Most Annoying Threeyearold; DS2 was my 'baby' until the other babies came along etc...
I think our mornings are fairly organised (bags packed the night before, school lunch prepared, uniform laid out), but he seem to have the urge to disturb the apple cart, particularly when everything is going well or when I have just praised him/them. I work 3 mornings/wk so we have to be on the ball.

DS1 and 2 go to a martial arts class and love it; DS2 is the physically more able one, but he refuses to see that or believe us/his coach when we say he is doing well.
Like I sad, we have not found anything that he would do without the shadow of his older brother. I was thinking Cubs/Scouts would be a Good Thing, but he point blank refuses to even look at it. Football - nope. Swimming - nope.

[DarftApeth]

Sounds like my ds (just turned 10yrs).

Last year he suddenly started going into rages and would sometimes take a couple of hours to calm down. Poor dd (younger than him) often got the the worst of it. He was fine a school but, I think, would 'let it all out at home'. He changed from a funny, bubbly, smiley boy to one who was always screaming, saying 'no' when asked to do something, swearing and violent. Very scary!

I used to dread weekends, with two days to fill and two days to try to remain calm no matter what he did!

He ended up having counselling at school, which seemed to help and he is now a lot calmer, although we have the occasional outburst.

I bought a book called ' Volcano in my Tummy' from Amazon. See here www.amazon.co.uk/Volcano-My-Tummy-Children-Caregivers/dp/0865713499/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

We had lots of talks about anger being normal and that everybody gets angry - only talk when he is calm, not when he is having an outburst. We tried to give him more responsibility, a later bedtime than dd, slightly more pocket money than dd. I started to pick my battles and let lots of things go that I would previously have picked him up for just to avoid too much conflict.

He got to choose an outing to go on at the weekends - but with only two, that is easier to do!

We had rules about what he must not do when he gets angry e.g. Hurt people, break things. I think some of his counselling sessions (I wasn't present, so I don't know too much about them) talked about what triggers the anger and what he can do to help calm down. Ds used to take himself off to his bedroom and wrap himself in his duvet to calm down.

We always tried to end an outburst with a hug.

My ds is also very lacking in confidence at school. He is in a class with lots of very bright, articulate boys and, I think, this doesn't help. He also refused to do cubs, although I was very keen for him to do it.


So, although things have improved, the outbursts he has now often seem to be about anxiety and are short lived flare ups (ie much more 'normal') e.g. Not being able to do homework and worrying about it. he is still more hard work than dd and requires warnings about something that is about to happen and can be very tiring. BUT my bubbly boy is beginning to return which is lovely.

I'll stop now because this has become an essay. I hope something may be of use!!

[PacificDogwood]

DarftApeth, thank you so much, v useful - thanks for taking the time.
I will have a look at that book.
How did he/you access counselling at school? I'd be interested to look at that option, although I am not sure DS would find it easy: he struggles to express feelings with words, which is part of the problem.

My DS seems to behave fine at school/friend's houses, but like you say, seems to 'kick off' at home, presumable because home is 'safe'.

I feel so sorry for him - he has so much going for him, but is just not happy and cannot seem to find ways to cope better with everyday frustrations.

He was lovely tonight - dressing up, doing his 'joke' and carrying on with his sibs in a positive way .

Good to hear that your DS seem happier again.

[DarftApeth]

Luckily, ds' school have a school counsellor who he was able to see free of charge. I think he had about 8 sessions over a few months.

The counsellor is used to working with kids so, lots of stuff was through drawing/objects, etc. Initial meeting was with ds, myself and her and then she saw him on his own with a couple of phone calls/texts. I was a bit surprised not to be party to the sessions but, I suppose, it helped ds to be able to speak openly without worrying about us finding out what he said!

If you can afford it, I'm sure there will be counsellors you could contact, just make sure they have experience with children.

[KatharineClifton]

If you want to go through the school your DS should be allowed access to the educational psychologist.

[MrsBradleyJames]

I do remember a thread on here saying how difficult people were finding their 7 year olds. To do with testosterone I think. There is a surge at toddlerhood, at 7 and then at puberty, so I'm told. Perhaps your DS is somewhat a victim of this. My ds certainly had the 7 year old collywobbles - from a happy ebullient confident boy, suddenly he became a boy who had to throw himself on the floor and writhe around if it was homework time, or slam doors, or lay on the sofa saying that he was so rubbish he may as well be dead................................................!!!!

I have to say thankfully for DS this really was a phase, and at 8 he was miles better and at 9 he is now a truly delightful young gent He has SEN and hates school so all is not well but given all this, he tries to cope and we certainly don't have any of the above behaviour now.

Might he enjoy an activity on the weekend just with you or his dad? My ds also couldn't (Still can't) abide the thought of us leaving him anywhere and won't consider cubs etc. Even something as simple as a long walk on a Saturday morning with one of you might work wonders. Maybe you could say that you are getting fit and doing a saturday walk and ask him to come along. We do this with DS and it's brilliant time together. Boys enjoy walking and talking imo. Not being face to face seems to suit DS and he chats away.

[DarftApeth]

I'm not sure that EPs would be able to offer counselling but it is certainly worth asking.

[GooseyLoosey]

My ds went through an angry phase at about 7. In his case it was sparked off my things that were happening at school and his inability to control them. We spent a lot of time with the school trying to deal with the problems (without ds actually being aware of what was being done). Could there be any school issues that are triggering this?

We also said that it was alright to be angry about things sometimes but it was never alright to lash out at his (admittedly sometimes very annoying) younger sister). Because he simply could not stop being angry until the stress points had changed, we worked at channeling his anger - he was allowed to go and hit a pillow as hard and as much as he wanted, I would even help him hit it, which made him laugh. If he chanelled his anger we were all happy and he got lots of positive reinforcement. If he did not, I imposed sanctions.

At the moment (he is 8), he is the most gentle child you could imagine and very caring towards other people (except his sister).

[PacificDogwood]

Thank you all, again.

I have made an appointment to speak to his teacher, but I am not aware of school issues. He is rather sociable and popular, has friends and is doing fine academically.

It is the sudden outbursts of anger, from serenity to foaming at the mouth at the drop of a hat.
I like the idea of walks together - the problem is really, with 4 children and a DH who works late/nights/weekend, there is rarely an opportunity to spend 1-on-1 time with him which I am sure is part of the problem .