DSs fighting so much, we are worried lovely new nanny might walk out :-(

[PacificDogwood]

I have posted about DS2 aged 7 before.
DS1 aged 8 is no angel and quite adept at rather sneakily winding his brother up until he explodes - it doesn't take much...
New nanny started at the beginning of last week, first week went ok, this week she has now had a couple of days of horrendous school runs behind her: boys fighting, swearing (at each other and at her ), walking on the road, ignoring being called etc etc. All this, while she is also pushing double buggy with DS3 and 4 - personally, I wouldn't even blame her if she wanted shot of us .

I appreciate that it is early days, I hope she has more staying power and that things will settle down.

But - things have not been harmonious for months now, I am fed up and just don't know how to help the older 2 to relate a bit better to each other.
Please nobody mention 'How to speak to children, so they will listen...' or their sibling rivalry book - I agree with what they are saying, but in practice we seem to struggle to see any progress.
DS3 is often the most aggressive, most physical, absolutely foul-mouthed thug, but he is equally often severely provoked. He is certainly an unhappy boy who suffers with poor self-esteem (I am ugly and stupid - he is neither) and I just can't figure out how to help him.

For tonight they have lost a whole bunch of privileged - which they can earn back with good behaviour.

Anybody have any happy pills for boys?? Or any other magic wands?
I am really quite deflated about this now, as I thought new nanny was phantastic and would really not want to lose her .

Oh pacific - no words of advice as my 4 boys a bit younger than yours but if it's any consolation my mum is staying just now and has expressed her horror at the stress of getting them all to school and nursery 10 minutes up the road- trips can take a whole hour what with the fighting, scootering in the road, tantrums and forgetting stuff. My top 2 (5 and 3) fight loads and it makes me really sad as I worry that ds1 really doesn't like ds2 although ds2 idolises him. I have your situation to look forward to I think

Where are they hearing the swearing?

I don't want to be harsh as it must be tough with 4 DC but I don't think calling DC3 a foul mouthed thug is nice...he's in a buggy! That's too small to call names like that surely?

Why are they all so unhappy? Ask yourself the truth...there must be a reason...something not so good going on...is their school ok?

Thanks you for commiserating, lollystix, it helps. Gosh, you must have close age gaps [impressed]

They can behave, they know how to behave (no complaints from school or when they go to friends' houses), so why oh why not at home??

How can I help DS2 to develop more self-esteem and self-'like'? He actively looks for trouble; whenever all is happy and quiet with 3 of them doing something as soon as he enters the room you can bet your bottom dollar somebody is going to be in tears or cursing or hitting or .....

None of them seem to get that their behavious impact on all of us AND them, in that there are things I will not do with them because I am too mortified to be seen with them.

I am going to bed. Sweet amnesia of sleep. Will hopefully wake up with cheerfulness (mine) restored for another day in the trenches (my turn to do school/nursery runs tomorrow).

Mumbling, x-post. No, DS2 is the thug and believe you me, he certainly sounds like one.
We don't swear, both boys have more of a vocabularly than I would like them to have, partially from school, but also from previous (lovely) DM who had older DSs who delighted in teaching them lots, and lots . Which is part of the reason why we changed our childcare arrangements.
TBH, DS3 aged 3 1/2 is potty mouthed too, particularly when he hears the 'NO' word, but I am hopeful that he is merely parroting and will 'forget' to use bad language when he does not hear it on a daily basis anymore.

Ds1 seems to have goldfish memory when it comes to remembering the consequences of his bad behaviour (eg-light sabre confiscation, no gingerbread men etc)- sounds like it doesn't get much better. Ds3 is 19 months and ds4 is 4 weeks (he's very well behaved)

Parents evening last week, all teachers happy with their academic and social progress.
Nursery have no issue with DS3
DS4 (20 months) is lovely, albeit strong-willed toddler.

I have no idea what they or DS2 in particular is so unhappy about: his glass is always half empty, he expects the worst from everybody and everything.
Like I said "I am stupid and ugly" is a recurring theme which really upsets me.

Anyway, I am off to bed now.

When he says he''s stupid or ugly, can you immediately say "No you're clever and handsome!" and tell him ALL day....so it gets hammered in?

Well, nanny did come back; she is made of sterner stuff

However my concern for DS2 continues.
After being told off for hitting his 3 year old brother yesterday, he went in his usual door-slamming huff and disappeared for a while. Then he came back and gave me a tiny folded note that said: "I hate you all".
The following exchange (all written on tiny folded notes and deposited by him and me in an empty baby wipes box which was our mail box):
"I am sorry you feel like that. I love you. I miss happy DS2"
"I love you, mummy, but I hate DS3"
"I know you feel like that. Don't let him spoil all your fun"
"I try"
"I know you do. What can I do to help?"
"Kill DS3" "I am very very sad x1000"
"I know DS3 can be annoying. Hugs"

Then DH came home and our note writing stopped. I am glad he found a way to express himself as he does struggle with that.
But when rereading the notes today, I am just heartbroken for him.
I think the 'kill DS3' just comes from a sense of powerlessness as he does now that his brother will not just go away.

Anyway, I am just updating and venting.

Hugs to you- Ds1 (5) tells me' he hates ds2(3)-his words - and it upsets me to. I always tell him ds2 is 3 and when he's 4 it will be better. He told me the other day ds2 was getting slightly less annoying.

Is there any chance to build in one-on-one time with each during the week. Or at least two kids with one of you (maybe DS1 and DS3 then DS2 and DS4), just to have some space for them?