Do you see things getting better any time soon?

[Feemo]

It just seems like things are getting worse and worse and it feels like Israel/Palestine is all anyone’s talking about.

I’ve got a couple of hobby groups I am part of and although I knew they’d be pro-Palestine we managed to go for this whole time without it coming up until the last couple of weeks when it was brought up by both groups separately. Since then after some stuff that was said, I feel really uncomfortable and don’t know how to continue being friends with them. For context, they weren’t posing calm, objective critiques on the actions of the Israeli government. I’m sure you can imagine.

The worst bit is that they don’t even comprehend that there’s another side to things or that things are more complex than they might believe.

I heard a Jewish YouTuber I like say that we are at the point where saying you support Israel is like saying you support the KKK - it is seen as so outrageous and horrific that nobody would have any interest in hearing what you’ve got to say. It makes it really hard to point out when people are misinformed or half a story is being told.

I feel a shift lately - it doesn’t even seem to be regarded as political or potentially controversial anymore because it’s seen as such an indisputable fact that they’re the “bad guys”.

I have had to come off all social media and I’ve lost basically all of my friends. I’ve got a support group I attend for trauma that I experienced and someone there brought up being triggered by the stuff happening to children in Gaza and some of the comments were awful. It has been such a safe place for me for years and now there’s just nowhere left.

I have literally never known a situation like this where everyone is so political engaged and talking about it constantly. I can’t believe that it’s been almost two years and it’s still the main topic very day.

I am very frightened about the future and what’s going to happen. I wonder how you see things shifting over the coming years. I am trying to stay hopeful but it is becoming increasingly difficult.

I'm so sorry you've experienced all that, OP.

I don't have much of a life outside the home (by choice!), so I've been kidding myself along that maybe people are a bit more balanced "out in the real world." It's horrible to hear that they're not.

In my lifetime (almost 70 decades), I've never seen anything quite like this. Social media has played a huge part in shaping views, and some very dark forces have used this very much to their advantage.

I'm not Jewish (sorry for intruding here!), but do my pathetic best to voice support for Israel on the CITME board. It seems an utterly pointless exercise, though, as no one is interested in seeing two sides to this story.

This is going to be a terrible sexist sweeping generalisation, but based on my own observations of discussions about this conflict, I've come to the conclusion that men tend to be much more pragmatic (more realistic about what war involves?) and also more sceptical about propaganda. I quit MN for some time after being sickened by the bias of the CITME thread, and took DH's advice to hang out on more male-dominated forums. Sure enough, it was like a breath of fresh air.

Who knows how it will end? I worry that things will get much worse before they can get any better, and am really concerned for the future.

I am braced for this every moment I step out of the house. I live in a city that’s in the middle of a major international festival and I’ve gone to many events. At several of them, there was a flag or a comment or a song ‘sung in solidarity with our brothers in Palestine’ or or or. It’s unrelenting and it’s making me very, very anxious. No one seems to understand that I can hate violence but also hate Hamas. I can love my religion and struggle with the politics. Everything is a mess and I’m beyond tired now. There are so many bad things happening all over the world but this is the only one anyone cares about and it’s overwhelming and really quite scary.

I really hate the conflation of this topic with every single other fight - I went to a women’s rights event and it was all Palestine flags. I went to a protest for a totally unrelated issue and it was all sorts of Palestine shirts and signs and whatnot. I walked past a trans rights protest and it was… you guessed it. Palestine would be one of the last places I’d want to live if I was trans so I just don’t understand. I don’t get to have any sorts of feelings about anything because everything is about one thing.

I don’t even know if I’m making sense. It’s awful and I’m so scared for my children.

I feel as though the world was a very different place before 7/10/23. I'm shocked at how ready people are to view the atrocities purely through the lens Hamas immediately offered and has continued to drill in via social media. How did getting arrested in support of a proscribed terrorist group (Palestine Action) suddenly become so fashionable?

I wonder the same thing, frequently.

I have also lost most of my non-Jewish friends since October 7, and have parted ways with my business partner.

I live in a very “leftie” city with marches happening every weekend and lots of anti-Israel lobbying. I’m not sure I want to carry on bringing my children up here. They go to a nominally Jewish school but only around 10% of the pupils are Jewish.

My husband is Israeli and we are considering aliyah but it won’t be immediate.

I am often soothed by the knowledge that not everyone is anti-Israel/antisemitic/anti-Zionist. Social media whips things up. But in my line of work (I’m an author) the mood is very much anti. I’m about to send my strongly Zionist debut novel out into a world that is virulently biased against it!

I started up a Jewish independent press last year, and I know several other people doing similar. Perhaps there will be a great “in-gathering” and inward turning towards setting up our own institutions and establishments.

Yes, I am aware that there is now an insurmountable barrier between our community and the rest of the country. I no longer shop at half the shops on the high street because of their terrorist support, every interaction I have is marred by the knowledge that they probably support people who want my family dead...

Then out of the blue you meet someone rational... There is some hope!

We don't trumpet our support as loudly because we are at risk. Terror supporters know they won't be attacked for their support...

On the one hand I would love to throw myself further into our community. On the other, like an absolute coward, I don't want to engage too much with Jewish institutions and events because I'm scared of attacks. I want to ensure my family is safe and that my daughter has a mother.

I don't see it getting better, but perhaps a bit quieter so we can pretend things are normal once the war ends. Ultimately I'm aware that we'll need to make aliyah at some point in the future. I'm attached to my lifestyle and the future I imagined here.

Until then, finding (quiet and safe) solidarity in our communities is important. I am in touch with a few other local families, and it makes such a difference to be amidst people openly and honestly.

My consolation is that the people I know who take a more balanced/compassionate view are awesome. They're kind, intelligent, and (should it ever matter) extremely competent. I'm glad they're "on my team" as none of them would be an easy pushover under any circumstances.

I’m so sorry to hear people’s stories about spaces they no longer feel safe in and people they are no longer friends with. It’s such an isolating time and I agree I don’t see how it will get better. I have been dropped by one of my good friends. She’s completely distanced herself, barely speaks to me yet hasn’t been brave enough to tell me the reason but I know what it is.
I’m spending the weekend away with some friends, it’s supposed to be a relaxing weekend away but my anxiety is high because I’m worried someone will mention it and I won’t know how to react.

These are frightening times, but I refuse to be afraid. I refuse. I am more cautious, yes, but I refuse to hide. I am active in my Jewish community, including with visitors and interfaith activities. I am open about my Jewishness at work. I'm the only Jew at work AFAIK.

I think it's quite possible to be realistic that war will inevitably involve the deaths of innocent people and still find some of Netanyahu & his government's actions very wrong.

But I would agree that bad-faith interpretations of Israeli government are far too common here. And definitely, far too many horrible people brainwashed by Hamas & dismissing anything against them as 'hasbara'.

I'm Gen Z, for context, and I will always support the right of the Jewish people to have a homeland of their own. I have been horribly shocked by the anti Semitism displayed recently. Sending a 🫂, these horrible attitudes need to be clamped down on firmly. No one should feel afraid like this in the UK.

Shops near you are supporting Hamas?? And open about that?

This is vile. Is there any way to report endorsements of Hamas?

Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts and for the support. I am sorry so many are feeling the same way.

Please do share the book title when it's ready, would love to read it! @purplechrayn

I really don't see it getting better until the war ends, and it will probably take quite a while after that and also depends what the Day After outcome of the war is.
I am fortunate to be in a small town where there is no overt support, one block of flats has a Pali flag hanging out of one window, but that's all I've seen. But I have lost much of my social life, which was in a traditional university town, my previously closest friend and some other friends have avoided eye contact and faded out.
I am single so it's been rough dealing with it all alone. I keep thinking about being a returning citizen, but am priced out of returning to Israel, unless I get a room in an apartment share, much as I was priced out of living in a Jewish community when I returned from Israel!

I really need my job pension so will have to stick it out for another ten years or so.

I think there is more support than appears. In a women's group I am in, I know people like me who support Jews and Israel and are appalled by the reactions after October 7th. But people are not vocal. The Pro-Pally lot have so much grabbed the attention and media that people feel silenced. I found out one of the women I know had the same views of me when she introduced the topic is a surreptitious way, without even mentioning the CITME, but I worked out she was trying to feel out my views on this.

I am a sex -realist/ Gender critical person too. It very much reminds of over 10 years ago when people were scared to say that they thought males should not be treated as women in all and every situation. Who was noisy and who was quiet did not reflect actual public opinion.

I think your parallel with GC is very apt. And, based on tentative discussions with friends (this is not a topic for discussion with colleagues!), I share your general impression of more widespread compassion for Israel's plight than is apparent here on MN.

I suppose fewer people sing it from the rooftops because they aren't interested in putting on a public display of allegiance to social media trends, unlike those desperate to signal their "virtue" and be applauded for it.

It's certainly a tricky topic to broach, a bit like vaccines in the COVID era (will your friend turn out to be a dogmatic obsessive who trusts TikTok more than PubMed?!).

I can only see things getting worse tbh. When Israel goes into Gaza in earnest the flattening of unsafe and booby trapped buildings will be wilfully misconstrued. Gazawood continues to thrive. The loud, ignorant voices will continue to shill. The younger generation are now conditioned to hate Israel, believe there’s a genocide and that zionists are akin to nazis. They’re the west’s leaders of tomorrow and I’m genuinely concerned for my children’s safety.

However, Israel will be safer than ever. The Sunni countries can’t wait for normality to return so they can trade with Israel again and the Shia countries are weaker. Israel will become much more aligned to the Middle East than the west but the west needs its intelligence for its own security. And the ignorant masses in the west that say Israel doesn’t have a right to exist have no idea how much they need Israel for their own safety. What a mess.