What makes someone Jewish?

[Mummabear04]

So the obvious answer is a Jewish mother right? But what if you have a Jewish mum that converts to another religion? Are they still Jewish (mother and child who is not raised in a Jewish culture/religion)? Would reform Judism acknowledge someone with a Jewish father and non-Jewish mum as Jewish? And then what about people who have say have a material grandad who is Jewish but a non-Jewish grandmother? Can they identify as Jewish? What if you are born Jewish through maternal descent but nobody has any religious/cultural knowledge of being Jewish? I am very curious to know what people think!

It is a complicated question because Jewish people are an ethnic group as well as being a religion. Questions about Jewish status are one of the things rabbis are called upon to answer. Some people consider themselves secular Jews and follow Jewish traditions, but do not have any religious belief or observance. Do you have any Jewish heritage yourself?

In the religious tradition, you are correct that if you have a Jewish mother then you are considered Jewish. Liberal and Reform Judaism would recognise someone with one Jewish parent as Jewish if they have had a Jewish education and upbringing.

If you are Jewish through maternal descent but didn't have any religious or cultural knowledge of Judaism, depending on the circumstances I believe most Orthodox authorities would recognise you as a Jew. The Liberal and Reform movements probably would not. Either way, if the person was interested they would be encouraged to study and participate in Jewish life.

@Flughafenkoenigin yes, I have Jewish heritage and I'm just trying to understand it really. It's all very confusing!

@Flughafenkoenigin just to add that my I am not Jewish but my Dad was born Jewish (not religious) and my cousins are Jewish because my Auntie was my Granny's daughter so unbroken maternal line. None of us were raised as Jewish by religion or culture but I find it so odd that I would be excluded from it because of birth. I get the "your mum needs to be Jewish" argument but it just doesn't make sense to me. And then I wonder about my kids too. When they were born I had to tell the midwife because of the new born genetic testing etc. So by ethnicity I am but also I am not at all and theres a sense of rejection in that.

OP I am of similar heritage to you (ie non religious Jewish dad) and I recognise what you say about a feeling of rejection. Now in my late 40s and totally shaken up by the events of the past year and a bit, I've decided I identify as half ethnically Jewish and that's that. I don't really care what anyone else says!

My feelings about the latent antisemitism that has erupted into blatant AS since Oct 7th last year have shaken me to my core. I've honestly never felt more Jewish in the sense that I find the explosion of AS very personal. My dad's family were German Jewish refugees in the 30s and I hope it doesn't sound too dramatic to say that I now understand the concept of intergenerational trauma. So in a sense that has informed how I feel about my own half Jewish identity.

Hope that helps you a bit.

This is an interesting thread and shows some of the complexities of Jewish people being an ethnic group as well as a religion. And of course also the 'two Jews three opinions' thing.

Identity is a two-way street. You have your personal identity meaning how you think of yourself. Then there is your social identity meaning how others perceive you. Both types of identity influence each other.

In my post above, I was answering in terms of Jewish religious law. The subsequent posters are not religious and answered in terms of their ethnic identity. It's great to hear the different perspectives.

It's a complicated issue. My mother is very into the 'Judaism as an ethnicity' idea and talks about it a lot. However - she never says my children are 'half Jewish' although my husband isn't Jewish (either ethnically or culturally) so I don't know how she reconciles this. Also my sister-in-law converted so is not ethnically Jewish at all - but entirely culturally so and much more observant than I am.

I am a member of a Liberal congregation now and I like their definition - that you are Jewish if you choose to be so and are involved in Jewish activities, etc. For me that's more cultural than religious so I do a lot of the traditions around food, language, etc. But you will absolutely get a different answer from every rabbi - and every other person you ask - and there are always specific situations that make it complicated.

From a historic viewpoint, Hitler considered anyone Jewish who had 1 Jewish grandparent so my children would be relevant but not my sister-in-law. While I try not to always go back to the Holocaust, it's one of many starting points to unpick it all.

In the orthodox strand, your mother has to be Jewish, either a convert before marraige or born Jewish. I don't think there is any other way to be Jewish unless you convert yourself.
In the Reform strand, it is less clear, but as far as I know (I have some connections to Reform but was brought up orthodox), it does depend on the circumstances of the person and their background. You won't automatically be Jewish if your father is Jewish, a rabbi would have to look at all the aspects.

I always think of it as a venn diagram of ethnicity and religion.

With a Jewish mother by descent, or an orthodox conversion, you are Jewish by Orthodox (halachic) standards. Provided your mother was halachically Jewish at the time she gave birth to you. So if she converted after your birth, you would need to convert too in order to be Jewish.

Liberal and reform accept paternal descent and conversion.

Large numbers of people have some Jewish ethnicity, and they may or may not feel connected to that. Some people were not raised with any of the traditions but their Jewish ethnicity and cultural identity is still very important to them.

Being Jewish by orthodox standards becomes important at major life events if you want those to be under orthodox auspices. In Israel this is even more pronounced but that's a whole other topic.

Otherwise, I think most people are a mish-mash of practice, ethnicity, culture and identity and love their lives as such doing what feels right to them.

For non-religious events, eg social and work networking groups, being Jewish is often self defined - if you have some Jewish connection by heritage or practice, identify as part of Am Yisrael, don't make things awkward by talking about another religion, and you feel Jewish, then you are Jewish.

"love their lives as such doing what feels right to them."

I meant live their lives!