Being referred to as ‘Jew’

[YaMuvva]

Is it just me who has been raised to use “Jewish people” as a preference because “Jew” is too often used as a slur and the German equivalent was barked at Jewish people by SS officers during the Holocaust? To clarify I came from a secular household that - and I always say this - did the fun bits, broke the rules and I am not now religious. I’d love to know from a religious perspective if language about how Jewish people define themselves is problematic.

I rarely use Jew - am I the only one? I’ve been called ridiculous for this before (by non-Jewish people, or non-Jews if you prefer)

I am a Jew. I prefer to be referred to as a Jew, because "Jewish people" feels very othering. They don't say, "Catholic people," they say, "Catholic," ditto for other faiths. "Muslims," not, "Muslim people.

BTW, @YaMuvva your other thread(s) have been hilarious. I am a little worried about how you are feeling post-surgery. I think you should be on the mend now, and it makes me wonder if something needs to be addressed. Sending you warm wishes across the miles.

That’s insightful! My family always told me it was the other way round, but I completely see your point (and my family are nothing if not slightly bonkers)
And thank you, I’ve only just been alerted to this board but I’m slowly recovering thank you for asking!

Also secular and also dislike it very much. Every time I use the phrase on here I squirm a bit.

I understand what you mean op. I also don't think the comparison with muslim and catholic works grammatically. You can be a muslim person or a catholic person and also a muslim or catholic if that makes sense. The words muslim and catholic can be both noun and adjective, whereas Jew is a noun and to turn it into an adjective you'd then use the word jewish.. Not quite sure what point I'm making there to be honest...more an observation!

Personally have no problems with it. I’m a Jew, I’m Jewish etc it’s all interchangeable for me. Same thing with yid, although community wise I don’t tend to refer to us as yidden as a group, culturally I was exposed to it a lot (worked in very frum/ chasidish schools).
the exception would be when a non Jew would scream yid or Jew at us, in that case It was always intended as an insult, so I wouldn’t be ok with that. But it’s pretty easy to tell when it’s intended as a slur!

I’m religious- but don’t know if it makes a difference ?

I do know what you mean. I've always said Jewish people. Although I am increasingly moving away from that and saying Jew/ Jews, I don't really know why! Maybe with so much about Jews and antisemitism in the news I feel like, let's just say it how it is. There are people out there who hate Jews. If you say, "There are people out there who hate Jewish people" it almost sounds too polite to my ear.

But I do take your point about antisemites spitting out the word Jew. Then again all racists can make any word sound hateful.

@EllaDisenchanted I don't think I've ever heard "yid" used politely, I have to say.

From Jews or non Jews?

From non Jews I’ve only heard it as a slur, but it’s really common in the communities I worked in to refer to us as yidden and a yid, in conversation, learning, and in music. A lot of the schools are also Yiddish speaking, so it makes sense. Eg benny Friedman’s song ‘ a Yid’ is super popular. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zGz_eVHddfo

@EllaDisenchanted I meant from non Jews! But I didn't really grow up in a Jewish community so I don't have the same experience as you, v interesting to hear.

Yeah I definitely think that will have ‘coloured’ it differently for you, so to speak. I did experience having it shouted at me (by random people on the street) so I do have experience of hearing it in an antisemitic eat but because my primary experience of the word is just the Yiddish for Jew, it doesn’t have negative connotations for me

I'm not Jewish.

I think there's a certain hostility in 'Jew' rather than 'Jewish'.

Some years ago I had this same discussion when staying with a Jewish friend in the US. Her adult daughter upbraided her for describing someone as 'a Gentile' saying it can sound hostile and I agreed. My friend said but it's factually correct to which I replied it's rather like someone saying, Joan is a Jew, rather than Joan is Jewish.

I suppose it's all in the tone and intent..

I hear. I think for me being a Jew is a core part of my identity. I’m proud of my identity and would prefer to call myself a Jew, rather than a Jewish person. I suspect it’s personal.

I think Jew and Yid are the sort of label that can only really be used by the holders of that label. Rather like the N-word can only be used by black people. These are words that have too terrible a history of being used pejoratively. But they are still my words.

(I don't like this, I don't even like using that euphemism, because I don't think any word should be tabbooed. The context in which it is used should define whether it is acceptable or not. But I bow to social conventions in this case.)

I'm a Yid, a hook-nose, a Hebe, I'm a Red Sea Pedestrian - and proud of it! But I can say it, I and my fellow Jews can say it. Not anyone else.

I’m indolent, so I’ve C&P what I said about this from an earlier thread:

I am Jewish and I am a Jew, and I use those terms interchangeably. They use the word to degrade and vilify, I take it back and use it with pride because that’s what I am. They use the word to other me, I use it to take back its meaning and its power from people who mean me harm.

My family is Mizrahi/Sephardi/Ashkenazi and the Mizrahi side of the family always used Jew/s rather than Jewish so maybe it’s about what we’ve grown up with? I think they were all so used to it being thrown about all over the places where they’re from that they were all a bit “eh” about it. I do shudder when I see/hear it used pejoratively because it feels rancid and I don’t actually think non Jewish people should use it in any context really.

I don’t actually think non Jewish people should use it in any context really.

Others have said similar above and I think this is exactly it.

Non-Jewish people shouldn't use what? Jew or Yid? Where I live (US) Yid is really rude and no polite people use it. I don't know any Jews who do. Jew is not a "label." It's the proper noun that describes people of the Jewish faith.

Jew and Yid mean the same thing.

In Yiddish:
Ich bin a yid = I am a Jew
Ich bin yid = I am Jewish

It feels quite sad when Jews, Ashkenazi Jews, are afraid to use their own word.

Yid is not rude.

It's not like kike, for example, which AFAIK has always been imposed upon us, rather than being our own word appropriated from us.

I rather liked that Spurs fans called themselves the Yid Army, even though the fanbase was no longer overwhelmingly Jewish.

I really dislike seeing non-Jewish people use "Jew" although I accept everyone has a different opinion on that and I don't get upset by it, although I totally squirm using it myself. But I really despise when they refer to "the Jews". Months ago there was a poster on one of the other threads who said "the Jews have got their own board, go and post over there instead", and "the Jews" went right through me, even more than her actual message, which was bad enough in and of itself.

Yid I can't stand because I generally only hear it used pejoratively (football aside) although interesting to hear @EllaDisenchanted perspective on that.
It just feels offensive to me like the equivalent of the way Youpin is used in France.

Being Jewish is not just about faith.
A Jewish person can be an athetise as part of the Jewish race. In fact I believe most Jewish people in the U.K. are atheists

Of course 'Jew' is a label. That's what a noun is. A label for something.

A Jew/a Christian/a left-handed, red-haired trapeze artiste, they are all labels for what a person is. The difference is in how labels are used.

No-one ever shouted out "Oy! Dirty Christian! Get back to where you effing came from, you effing Yonkel-killer!" Talking about 'Christians' carries no history of abuse.

This is essentially what I was taught but it’s really interesting to get different perspectives

Yes I was raised to call myself 'Jewish' or someone as 'Jewish' and that 'Jew' was a slur.