Feeling uncomfortable re Uni DD’s views

[Cattyisbatty]

DD today is at a uni in one of the cities with the pro-Pally campus encampments. Her girlfriend is actually camping out and although DD wouldn’t camp she has visited and spoken to those who are, and supports it (up to a point - she said she wouldn’t rally). She said they’re not anti-Semitic, but they’re anti-Zionist and of course her gf knows she is Jewish and they’ve spoken about it all.
She went to a Jewish secondary and is quite in to being Jewish, but says school brainwashed them re Israel and her Old school friends agree. She has spent quite a bit of time in Israel as well.
We talked earlier and ultimately we probably think fairly similarly in that Netanyahu is a bastard and that the hostages should be released now and that it’s been overkill in Gaza, but I would never be ‘pro Palestinian’ as to me that equates to anti-Israel and I do believe in the state of Israel, but it seems she doesn’t really.
Anyone else in the position of having young folk not be supportive of Israel atm (I see friends on FB posting things about keeping safe on campus and I did tell her to keep safe as well esp if she’s mixing with those who may support Hamas - albeit covertly).

I'm sorry but you need to sit her down and read her the riot act with some harsh words and reminders about why Israel is necessary.

I think the best thing you can do for her is continue to share the common ground you already do have, then she's more likely to take whatever else you say on board. Absolutely no need for the riot act and harsh words. Arm her with facts. About why Israel exists as well as why it needs to exist and be safe, and what Zionism means for most diaspora Jews. She needs to see how anti-Zionist rhetoric is often Jew-hatred in disguise and how the protests are riddled with it. That the situation is deteriorating globally for Jews and it's antisemitism that actually encourages Jews to want to move to Israel. And give her the basics on the history of Jews in the middle east. She'll know all this already but you can just give her some gentle reminders or guidance as she's obviously only hearing one, very loud, side just now. She just needs the tools to be able to think it all through for herself and be able to counter argue with her 'anti-Zionist' friends, which you can help with.

She's an adult now - ultimately it's up to her how she processes that information and how she uses it. I'm not surprised a lot of younger Jews are feeling so disillusioned and angry towards Israel right now and you can acknowledge that, as well as the utter devastation in Gaza. But she needs to understand the difference between the brutes in government (and the West Bank) and the general Israeli population, and especially their need for protection.

I’m not doing this, she’s nearly 22 so entitled to her own views, but I’m disappointed that she has moved away from her pro-Zionist views.
I may do some more reading up on the history of the conflicts etc before she comes home for the summer so I’m better informed.

Thanks, that’s pretty much what I’ve been doing anyway, but I need to educate myself more for the counter argument and pre-1948 history as I tend to go into ostrich mode about it all.

@Cattyisbatty Good luck!

https://amzn.eu/d/25zo4BH

This is a great book that might help.

Thanks. This is exactly the sort of book I’m after! I’ll download it on kindle.

Read the riot act to an adult? That will really help eh?

I think her having had a jewish education, she will be pretty well versed in the history already.

What does 'anti-Zionist' mean? What do people think Zionism is?

Do they realise that being anti-Zionist means they support the view that Jewish people should have no right to live in a Jewish country? In a country where their religion is mainstream? That Jewish people should have no right to access or protect the holy places of their faith - their thousands of years of Jewish heritage?

Or do they think that they are protecting natives against colonisation? And I am using a potentially offensive word - natives - deliberately. Because anti-colonials often have a patronising attitude to the people they think they are protecting.

Do they realise that being anti-Zionist means they support the view that Jewish people should have no right to live in a Jewish country? In a country where their religion is mainstream? That Jewish people should have no right to access or protect the holy places of their faith - their thousands of years of Jewish heritage?

I think a lot of anti-Zionists (older than Gen-Z) do actually realise this, but have firmly subscribed to the very inflexible oppressor-oppressed narrative where Jews are cast as the oppressor with all the agency and therefore can't be victims (I've just seen a very blatant example of this on another thread). Suits their wider narrative to a tee and they can just fingers-in-ears the inconvenient details. It's enabling the term Zionism to be bastardised and relevant only to Israeli activities in the Palestinian territories (which are shameful) or the more extreme version that we apparently plan to control the world.

So yes, they think they're protecting 'the colonised'. And they certainly don't want to hear that the country was created by refugees that didn't have anywhere else to go and that without an iron dome there would be few Israeli's left, Jewish and non-Jewish.

If she doesn't believe in a state of Israel, what does she believe in? Genuine question in an attempt at figuring out what angle to approach it all from!

It also sounds like she might need a reminder that it's ok to disagree with Israeli policies, plenty of Israelis do, without wishing the whole country away.

Exactly, although she said school ‘brainwashed’ them! I also had a Jewish education but have never felt like that.
im reading the book mentioned above and it’s v interesting- DD said she’d read it (when home as I downloaded on kindle, don’t think she has kindle at uni).

DD was saying why does the Jewish homeland have to be Israel, I thought that was ridiculous, where else would it be?
She said she wants to look at it from different viewpoints which is fair enough, but some are just nonsensical.

@Hélène79 - you make some good points there.

Not really sure, she did say there should be a Jewish state but not necessarily Israel, which makes no sense to me.
I mean we essentially agreed we don’t agree w the Netenyahu government, feel bad for Gazans, want the hostages freed and hate Hamas - but the difference is she is much more ‘rooting for the underdog Ie, Gazans whereas I’m more generally pro-Israel (but not pro Netanyahu).

The Jewish state should be Israel because that's where our holy sites are. It's where we pray towards. Does she have an answer for why it shouldn't be Israel? Or where it should be? Where could there be a Jewish homeland without anyone being displaced in the process? Israel exists. It's there. Moving it isn't an actual possibility. There'd be a lot more displaced people than during the build up to Israeli independence, that's for sure.

It sounds like you have a lot of common ground though, so maybe try focusing more on that for the time being 🙈

@Humdingerydoo thanks. I agree with all you say. When she comes back in the summer we will talk more.

I agree with this and perhaps the mindset of people who were forced to emigrate to Israel after they spent year pushing their dead relatives around in concentration camps only to find that when they were liberated the world still hated them and they were exiled and at risk, literally everywhere

One thing that always sobers me about Israel’s existence is if the Holocaust 2.0 happens - and it could happen - who are we gonna call? Where are we safe? There’s an answer. To support the removal of that safe haven is like a Turkey voting for Christmas

The sad thing is, YaMuvaa, my husband and I know exactly who will protect us here in the UK if we can't get to Israel. We know who we are calling. And the sadder thing is, it isn't any of my friends!

Same.
Although I’m not religious and my “Jewishness” relates to my heritage rather than my beliefs, since October 7th my friends who always said they’d never stand for what happened in Europe in the first half of the 20th century if it came around again, are suddenly very quiet.

Agree with the last couple of posts, sadly. It's a lonely time to be left-leaning and Jewish, even if just a bit Jewish (like me).

ETA - apologies to the OP as I just chimed in without offering any actual support! It must be difficult in this climate to be young and surrounded by very right-on types. I see parallels with the gender wars in some respects <<runs away>>

Huge empathy for you and your DD - v difficult to be a young jewish person at Uni.
I've started feeling anxious about my DS who will be applying to Uni soon. He's not particularly political but he's aware that I am a left leaning jewish zionist ( feeling abandoned!) - we have much family there. I've found when he's said things that I've found upsetting that he's related from what he's heard at school, I try to remove emotion and discuss what I know and also discuss reputable sources on the conflict ( I used a poll showing 75% of 18- 25 year olds in thought of jews as oppressors to highlight misinformation - which he took on board) in as matter of fact a way as possible....