Challah SOS

[MovingBird123]

Please share your challah recipes and tips!

I make challah (almost) every week, and while my family politely gets through it, it's just not good. It takes too long to chew. I've tried different recipes and but the result is always the same. I'm thinking of changing flour this week. I've always used strong white bread flour, may cut in some plain flour. What would you recommend? TIA

Don't know how to tag people who aren't already on the thread, but @25milesfromhome posted a fabulous-looking Challah on another thread, so hopefully they'll be along shortly! Otherwise, I believe the trick is to add lots and lots of sugar 😅 That's what a Chabad family I know do anyway!

I’m following this closely. I was thinking of making my first challah today.

Yes, that's what inspired me to ask here - looked amazing!

Definitely do not cut in plain flour. I've had to substitute in plain and it is not as good (also accidentally used part self raising one week, and it was still pretty good actually, joys of buying flour bags in ivrit and rushing lol). The higher the protein content the better.

Are you doing it by hand or in a mixer? I find it works better by hand, mixer gets sticky, and needs too much flour adding. You generally need to work dough til it is a baby's bum consistency (that is how it was described to me 😂), smooth but not sticky.

Are you using fresh or instant yeast? Some people swear by fresh yeast. I think it often rises quicker with fresh, but my recipe works well with instant.

Are you making sure it doubles in size? The rise time will vary depending on the temp in the room. In the UK it could take hours and hours for my dough to rise, because it was way colder.

I believe the recipe I use comes originally from the spice and spirit cookbook. I found when I moved to Israel I had to increase the flour and salt a little, as it was coming out stickier. Maybe the eggs are bigger, or the flour is slightly different. You may need to keep trying different recipes until you find one you like. That's what I did when I first start making challah years ago until I hit on one that worked for me. I occasionally make a sweet challah now for shavuout.

Sorry I am rushing - you did say you have tried different recipes out.

Thank you that’s very kind!
This thread is going to inspire me to try something different- I sense a real “three opinions” scenario emerging 😆.

I’ve always used all plain flour, but I’m going to try it with bread flour next time. I’m lazy, so I use a machine to knead with a little hand knead at the end. My dough is generally a bit wetter and shaggier than I suspect is normal because I’ve found it makes for a more tender challah, but a bit of a nightmare to roll and plait. As long as I can form it into a smooth oiled ball to rest, I’m happy.

I mostly make pumpkin challah- Leah Koenig’s yeasted pumpkin bread recipe is my favourite and this makes for a suitably floppy dough depending on how much flour you add as it kneads- it’s mostly just been experimenting to find what works for me. Jake Cohen’s challah recipe and tips are also good.

Agree with Ella to check your rise- it’s crucial to give it enough time. Mine normally needs at least two hours, more when the weather’s damp and cold.

I’d love to know how you get on and any other challah bakers(or any baked things really. Or just food actually.) if anyone wants to post a picture!

oh hilarious -it really is two Jews etc, because you do basically the opposite of everything I said 😂

🤣🤣

This is my recipe and everyone loves it. I do it in a mixer but I have used it many times by hand at group challah bakes and it works really well.

I have it is different sizes, this is my really big one that makes loads.

in a bowl or mixer put 4 tbsp dry yeast. Add 1.5-2 cups of sugar and 6 cups warm (like you would bathe a baby in) water. Not too hot, not too cold.

Let it bubble. Add 1/2 cup any neutral oil, 3 eggs, and 2.5 tbsps of salt.

measure out 6lbs or 2.7 kg of STRONG BREAD flour. Do not use plain.

add a bit of the flour and mix with spoon or mixer, slowly add flour and knead or mix until it is smooth and a good consistancy. You shouldn't need any more flour than that.

oil top and cover with clean damp towel, let it rise for an hour or two till it has doubled.

Take challah with a bracha.

Shape.

Egg the tops.

rise again for 30 minutes.

Bake for 20-30 minutes depending on size at 170-175 depending on oven.

should be nice and golden brown and feel hollow when you tap the bottom.

i found this recipe after trying quite a few.

for a bread machine Suzi fishbein has a great recipe in kosher by design but it only makes 2 challahs.

Thank you all for the advice, please keep it coming! Lots to chew (haha...) on here

I make it by hand, no mixer. I try to keep the dough as wet as I can manage, but the quantities really seem to vary weekly. Perhaps it is our cold house! Good idea to make sure it really is fully risen. Love the baby's bum analogy 😂

Need to wait until after Pesach to carefully work through each different recipe...

I’m terribly hurt by this rejection of plain flour (jk).

All the recipes I’ve used specify all purpose flour, which has a higher protein content than plain flour but lower than bread flour. If the recipe you’re using calls for all purpose and you’re using bread flour, you might need to add a little extra water as bread flour will absorb more water, making the challah too dense and chewy if the dough’s too stiff. (So I’ll add a bit less water than in the recipe if I’m using plain flour.)

Even different batches of flour can vary in how much water they absorb and different climates have an effect too! A couple of minutes extra kneading won’t harm it if you’re not sure it’s smooth and elastic enough.

My mum had to switch recipes when she made Aliya, she had been making the same challah for forever! Now she uses Cusbara flour, I can't remember the translation.

@25milesfromhome All purpose flour is American, isn't it?

@EllaDisenchanted Yes, it is, I mostly seem to use American challah recipes. You can’t get all purpose here, hence swapping it out for plain because I always assumed they were closer in protein content than bread flour but it seems to be quite variable. I’ll have a go with bread flour next time and see what difference it makes.

Stupid mistake 😂 she uses כוסמין kusmin flour (spelt). כוסברה cusbara is coriander 😅

Most bread recipes can only be guidelines, rather than precise, as even the best flours will vary slightly from year to year. One year's harvest may be drier than another's, or higher in protein. Unless you have a commercial cooking lab, you cannot know this other than by using the flour.

I use strong white bread flour. Occasionally I don't have enough swb flour, and I top up with some plain flour without any problems.

Eggs vary in size. Kitchen temperature, oven temperature, there are so many variables. Sometimes you need to use more water, sometimes less. Hence the baby's bum analogy. My dm used to say the dough should feel like your earlobe when you pinched it.

I think technique is what matters most.

I generally use a mixer with the dough hook on its slowest setting, and I don't rush. Though often I let the breadmaker make the dough, and then I adjust it by hand if I'm not happy with the consistency.

I find the more rises and the slower the rise, the better the texture and taste. Especially if I've used quick yeast. So I try to start my dough at least 24h before I plan to bake it - Wednesday evening/Thursday morning for a Shabbat challah. Rise in the fridge overnight, knock back, rise again and knock back at least twice more if possible. Last rise outside the fridge so the dough is warm when I shape it.

Shaping is also important. Knead, cut in three, roll, plait? No, no, no! Knead and cut in three. Now roll out each third into a sausage, roll it up like a rugelle, and keep rolling until you flatten it out into a sausage again. Do this three times for each sausage before plaiting them together. This gives the cheapest its internally spiral texture. Also, bread dough resists being shaped. It tries to spring back when stretched. This way of shaping seems to counteract the spring back.

Final rise. You can't overdo the earlier risings because you can just knock back and start again. But if you overdo the final rise you end up with a saggy challah. So keep checking, and bake sooner rather than later if you're unsure.

Hmmm autocarrot strikes again: This gives the challah its internally spiral texture.

Wow - a lot of love and effort in your challah Dilbertian! I am impressed! My mum also rolls our her sausages with a rolling pin and rolls them up like a swiss roll, but only once.
Also I did not know that about the flour. - explains a lot

I do enough to take challah with a brachah (2kg roughly of flour) by hand, but where I cut corners is rolling out (hence the pointy end lol), and I get lazy with second risings. My challah tends to be fluffy and light and tasty enough for us with one rising, so unless I don't have oven space to bake when it is risen, I don't usually knock it back. Once they are shaped, I don't hang around too long either. If the oven is cold, I put them in to the cold oven, turn it on, and then while it warms up it also helps the challah quickly re-rise if needed. Or sometimes they have to wait for other food to come out.

Once they are shaped, I don't hang around too long either. If the oven is cold, I put them in to the cold oven, turn it on, and then while it warms up it also helps the challah quickly re-rise if needed.

I like this idea!

It's not effort, it's laziness! Live yeast don't need multiple risings, but it does need me to be methodical and organised. Proving the dough in the fridge gives me more time to faff and procrastinate. And I discovered the beneficial effect of multiple risings because I faffed and procrastinated 😂

I like making bread.

I rise it only once, but it can be a long rise because i get distracted. I sometimes make thursday and leave in fridge overnight, I find it gets a slight yeasty taste but otherwise ok. I only do that for convenience though.

I think all purpose flour in the US is made from harder wheat. US wheat is harder than european wheat. But pretty sure challah bakers there use bread flour too.

@MovingBird123 did you make challah? Let us know how you got on!

I had a recipe I used for years (https://toriavey.com/challah-bread-part-1-the-blessing-and-the-dough/) which is lovely and sweet. She has excellent tips on braiding and re-egg-washing the white parts of the bread as it bakes. This is my current favorite from America's Test Kitchen. If you follow the instructions exactly you will have a beautiful loaf. BTW, I think American "all-purpose" flour is the same as your "plain" flour. It all comes down to the protein content. It's already Shabbos for most of you, so shabbat shalom and see you in the new week. My comments are in parentheses.
Easy-Braid Challah
Makes 1 Loaf
TIME 1¾ hours, plus 7 hours resting and cooling

GATHER YOUR INGREDIENTS
Flour Paste
½ cup water
3 tablespoons bread flour

Dough
1 large egg, plus 2 large yolks
¼ cup water
2 tablespoons vegetable oil
2 ¾ cups (15⅛ ounces/429 grams) bread flour (strong flour to you)
1 ¼ teaspoons instant or rapid-rise yeast
¼ cup (1¾ ounces/50 grams) granulated white sugar
1 teaspoon table salt
Vegetable oil spray

Egg Wash
1 large egg
Pinch table salt
1 tablespoon sesame seeds, or poppy seeds (optional)

BEFORE YOU BEGIN
This dough will be firmer and drier than most bread doughs, which makes it easy to braid. Some friction is necessary for rolling and braiding the ropes, so resist the urge to dust your counter with flour. If your counter is too narrow to stretch the ropes, slightly bend the pieces at the 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock positions. Bake this loaf on two nested baking sheets to keep the bottom of the loaf from getting too dark.
2
For the flour paste: Whisk water and flour in bowl until no lumps remain. Microwave, whisking every 20 seconds, until mixture thickens to stiff, smooth, pudding-like consistency that forms mound when dropped from end of whisk into bowl, 40 to 80 seconds. (Don't skip. This is an important step.)
3
For the dough: In bowl of stand mixer, whisk flour paste, egg and yolks, water, and oil until well combined. Add flour and yeast. Fit mixer with dough hook and mix on low speed until all flour is moistened, 3 to 4 minutes. Let stand for 20 minutes. (Also important. This step allows the flour to absorb the liquids.)
4
Add sugar and salt and mix on medium speed for 9 minutes (dough will be quite firm and dry). Transfer dough to counter and lightly spray now-empty mixer bowl with oil spray. Knead dough briefly to form ball and return it to prepared bowl. Lightly spray dough with oil spray and cover bowl with plastic wrap. Let dough rise until about doubled in volume, about 1½ hours.
5
Line rimmed baking sheet with parchment paper and nest in second rimmed baking sheet. Transfer dough to counter and press into 8-inch square, expelling as much air as possible. Cut dough in half lengthwise to form 2 rectangles. Cut each rectangle in half lengthwise to form 4 equal strips of dough. Roll 1 strip of dough into 16-inch rope. Continue rolling, tapering ends, until rope is 18 inches long. Repeat with remaining dough strips. Arrange ropes in plus-sign shape, with 4 ends overlapping in center by ½ inch. Firmly press center of cross into counter to seal ropes to each other and to counter.
6
Lift rope at 12 o'clock, bring over center, and place in 5 o'clock position. Lift rope at 6 o'clock, bring over center, and place in 12 o'clock position.
7
Lift rope at 9 o'clock, bring over center, and place in 4 o'clock position. Lift rope at 3 o'clock and, working toward yourself, bring over braid and place in 8 o'clock position. Adjust ropes so they are at 12, 3, 6, and 9 o'clock positions.
8
Repeat steps 5 and 6, working toward yourself, until you can no longer braid. Loaf will naturally list to 1 side.
9
Pinch ends of ropes together and tuck both ends under braid. Carefully transfer braid to prepared sheets. Cover loosely with plastic and let rise until dough does not spring back fully when gently pressed with your knuckle, about 3 hours.
10
For the egg wash: Thirty minutes before baking, adjust oven rack to middle position and heat oven to 350F (175C) degrees. Whisk together egg and salt. Brush loaf (VERY THOROUGHLY) with egg wash and sprinkle with seeds, if using. Bake until loaf is deep golden brown and registers at least 195F (90C) degrees, 35 to 40 minutes. Let cool on sheets for 20 minutes. Transfer loaf to wire rack and let cool completely before slicing, about 2 hours.

Yes, the harder the wheat, the higher the protein content of the flour. I'm sure US challah bakers ( @SpuytenDuyvil ?! ) also use bread/strong flour but in the recipes I've used most frequently, they say:
Leah Koenig- all purpose/plain
Jake Cohen- all purpose
Claudia Roden- plain
Adeena Sussman- all purpose

If you look at the Tori Avey recipe linked above, it also uses all purpose flour. So each to their own I guess.

Other things I’ll be trying are re-egg washing, adding an extra yolk and @Dilbertian's shaping technique.

I tried the plain flour and persevered with a wet dough. It was lighter and quicker to swallow, but lacked that "pull" of the bread flour. I probably should have kneaded it for longer, I stopped just as it became easier to work with. Next steps: I want to try again kneading it for longer, then try again with a mix of flours, then try all these other recipes.

I also left it longer than I wanted post-braiding (was nap-trapped by baby), but like the tip to not leave it too long for final rise.