Am I still considered Jewish?

[Tiredboymum22]

My maternal great grandmother fell for a catholic and unofficially joined the faith. My nan (her daughter) was sent to a convent during ww2 to escape the n4zis. She was never religious but wanted to see “the nuns” before she passed. My mum never practiced Judaism and I’ve been baptised into the Christian faith. My maternal grandad’s family live in Israel and my brother went to visit them a few years ago.

Ethnically, I’m Ashkenazi, but I’ve been told that because there have been three generations of conversions in my family I’m not considered Jewish. I’ve felt drawn to my Jewish roots since Oct 7th but I have no plans to practice Judaism. I just feel a strong urge to protect my roots and connect with other Jewish people.

Anyone else in a similar boat?

I’m in a similar boat. I generally feel both Jewish and non-Jewish. I’m proud of my roots and research my family history. I have been asked before if I’m Jewish because I ‘look Jewish’. I’m well aware that Jewish people can have any eye colour, any hair colour, any skin colour, any features etc.

In my opinion, Judaism is so much more than a religion. You can be ethnically Jewish without being religious. I personally would consider you Jewish because of the combination of your lineage and because you say you feel a connection to your Jewish roots, but my opinion doesn't exactly mean much! If you feel Jewish, or even Jew-ish 😉, it's good enough for me.

I know that my aunt by marriage was going to convert to Judaism when she married my uncle as she had always felt a connection to Judaism anyway, but then discovered she didn't need to convert at all as her maternal grandmother was Jewish 🙃 They just never talked about it because of the holocaust, so my aunt only found out in her 30s. So I think there are quite a lot of stories similar to your own!

This is an interesting question. If you had a great-grandparent from another minority, would you consider yourself of that minority, or would you consider yourself as having that minority heritage?

I think that’s an interesting question. If it was another heritage, I would just consider myself as having that heritage. I think what makes the difference, for me, is firstly that you’re Jewish if your mother is Jewish. I have an unbroken maternal line of Jewish women. Secondly, I think that because many family members were killed in the Holocaust… I can’t think of how to put it… I feel both that I want to stick up for the Jewish people and and connected to them too.

Basically it passes down the female line so if your mother's mother's mother was Jewish, then you are halachically Jewish. If you wanted to be accepted as such in orthodoxy the rabbinate might ask for evidence of your great grandmother's Jewishness.

Yes you are halachically Jewish if it’s all down the mother’s line.
I once told someone they were Jewish cos they had a Jewish GM although they were catholic by religion.
H

I am halachicly Jewish, found out in my 30’s and took conversion purely to get Jewish papers so my children would not have to prove their Jewishness. My grandmother was Jewish but got given papers making her Lutheran evangelical so she could marry my German grandfather and as my mother and all other family members are not alive anymore there were no papers with her real , born identity at all. That’s why I took the conversion.

This is so interesting - does that mean that someone with a Jewish maternal great grandmother is "more" Jewish than someone with a Jewish dad (which I have)? Or more "officially" Jewish?

Sorry, I don't mean to make it sound like a game of Jewish top trumps..! Am also just trying to make sense of it all. Like the OP, 7th Oct and the aftermath have really changed everything for me wrt how drawn I feel to that aspect of my heritage.

Yes, Orthodox Judaism goes by the maternal line. (progressive strands of Judaism have different rules i believe)

You can be ethnically Jewish (say with 3 Jewish grandparents) but not halachically Jewish.

If this is important to you I would contact the London Beth Din (if in UK) and they can probably help you.

This would only be applicable in certain cases, eg marriage, perhaps Orthodox run education programs.

If you want to turn up at Jewish cultural events I don't think most people will care.

Different denominations have different requirements to be considered Jewish. Why don't you contact a local Rabbi to discuss this further, and perhaps you can attend some events. There are Chabad houses throughout the UK - you may be able to attend public events for the upcoming festival of Purim, or you could attend a Friday night dinner. x

I understand your frustration. I can trace my Jewish family back to the early 1500s in Eastern Europe. My dna comes up with Jewish ancestry among some other ancestry. My ggg grandfather was buried in the Old Jewish Quarter of Rookwood Cemetery in NSW Australia. I was raised by my grandmother who was of Jewish decent, yet I am not seen as Jewish even though I have this history and identity as an ethnic Jew. I know the orthodox view comes through the mother, the Torah view is it comes through the father, it was after the second temple was destroyed that the Rabbis changed this idea to the mother. Genesis 15:5 and Deuteronomy 1:10 says we will number like “stars in the sky”. Surely this talks about all of us Jews who are the products of intermarriage no matter how far back it goes. Because the Jewish population certainly does not number like stars in the sky to this day even if you included those descended from the mother or even if you included both mother and father descendancy.
What disappoints me as Jews we are so ready to cast our opinions as who we class as Jews, it’s sad for me at least, as it resembles the ideology of Hitler, putting a percentage or scale to who is Jewish.
We should be embracing each other with support and care instead of being the “guardian's of the gate” of who is Jewish or not. Especially in this day and age!!

I had a Jewish friend of Orthodox background, who fell in love with a non-Jewish man in her 30s. As she said (wept!) "It's been drummed into me for years that if I marry out I will be doing Hitler's work for him. But how is it any different if I never have children to bring up Jewish?" She ended up marrying her non-Jewish boyfriend and together they are bringing their children up Jewish as members of a Reform Jewish community.

I thought being Jewish was an ethnicity, defined by DNA, so tracing your roots back to that area in the Middle East? Zero to do with religious beliefs and practice. So I think you are Jewish. A convert isn’t Jewish. You can’t absorb DNA you weren’t born with (see the trans threads).

Nonsense. Judaism is both an ethnicity and a religion. Someone who converts to Judaism becomes religiously Jewish. A Jew who converts to a different religion remains ethnically Jewish. In the OP's case, her ethnicity includes Jewish heritage, but I doubt she would be considered religiously Jewish - though I don't actually know what Halacha says after several generations of descendants practicing a different faith.

The question 'Am I Jewish' is really tricky and really does depend on who you ask - and for what purpose.

I'm a member of a liberal congregation and the answer is that if you choose to live your life as a Jew and have a connection through the mother 'or father' then you are part of the community if you choose to be. So in this context, you are not Jewish as you aren't living your life as a Jew. This is not true for most other congregations as they only recognise Judaism as passed down from the mother. But other sorts of Jewish congregations would say you are ethnically Jewish and therefore Jewish.

'Most' places wouldn't care if you were baptised - due to the long history of forced baptisms and conversions, they often don't recognise these unless you purposefully choose it as an adult.

I think there's a question around if your mother or grandmother actually converted and then therefore can't pass it down but that's too complicated for me! I have no idea if you'd 'count' if you wanted to immigrate to Israel or marry in a synagogue. Every single community would be different.

Hitler would have had you on his list so there's that as well.

The Judaism as ethnicity versus Judaism as a religious choice debate is never ending and complicated and one I try to avoid as I have people I know with very strong feelings on both sides!

Ok, so I just asked about this for you. (to an Orthodox Rabbi)

It seems your maternal line is all Jewish but the last three generations have had some type of attachement to Christianity.

You can still be considered Jewish, (and would not need to undergo conversion) but you might need to formally announce that you are now Jewish, and perhaps would be asked to immerse in a mikva.