Which crypto have you got in your portfolio?

[MsFogi]

Over the coming year I'm planning to drip feed some of my cash into a few crypto currencies (I plan to end up with about £30K exposure).
The obvious ones are of course Bitcoin and Ethereum (and I see there is a Ethereum 2??) - have any wise MNers got any advice for me on whether there are others I should look at and any advice more generally (I'm going to use coinbase)? Thanks

In five years, they’ll be pleasantly surprised though.

When JPMorgan are making plans to tockenise traditional assets and make potentially trillions accessible to DeFi, then you know blockchain is here to stay.

Who knows what the end state of crypto will be. I highly doubt it will disappear though.

I'm a big fan of crypro, as despite the energy requirements, it has the potential to globally democratise finance, much like the Internet did with knowledge and communications.

Name one thing that crypto does well that isn't done by traditional instruments.

And "democratise"? You mean the market that is even easier to corner by the big institutions? Sounds very fair.

JP Morgan clearly wanted to make money off the hype too, funny thing was, they changed their mind mid-pandemic when the latest asset bubble exploded. Before that? They had a very different take.

No, crypto isn't going to vanish, much like ousted Nigerian princes will always roam the web for marks. It's far too lucrative (for them) to get rid of it.

I'll stick to supplementing income trading FX. I don't pay any tax on it, my deposits are secured by FCA auditing, and I can withdraw or deposit to my heart's content. I've just got to live with realistic returns, not "I hope my kid's uni tuition money makes me a millionaire by Christmas. All the big banks say it's a sure thing, and they are never wrong.

I'm not entirely sure it's worth commenting on any of that as you have no room for balanced opinion.

I mean, I’m only posting things that actually happened. There have been way too many scams to list, most major exchanges from My. Gox to Binance are found corrupt and illiquid at some point, and intrinsically crypto doesn’t do anything actually useful.

An I missing something? This thread is literally about it as an investment to make money. Nothing else. Investing in a company or gilt or literally any commodity is at least getting you part of something real.

Bitcoin exploding in “value” is indicative of one thing and one thing only: a pump and dump scheme by hubristic people with the ability to get bag holders to allow them to cash out for real money, all the whole convincing them that this new coin will be worth even more in future so they, too, can cash out and retire without doing anything outside downloading an app and depositing life savings.

As others have said, you seem to have made your mind up, so I am not sure why you continue to post.

You however, do not seem entirely educated about the financial markets, as you think you are.

You say ' Investing in a company or gilt or literally any commodity is at least getting you part of something real '

A gilt is nothing more than a bond assigned to the UK Government with a promise to pay, at a certain fixed rate of return EG Tresuary 2.5% 2034.

So you will have a return of 2.5% each year until 2034.

However, you do not hold anything real, nothing other than a piece of paper, with stating you have a promise to pay, IF they remain solvent.

So, I would say if you are going to slate BTC for being non tangible, than using, a non tangible comparison, just makes you look ill informed.

In addition, you are in an FX market FULL of scammers, I would say more scammers than in the Crypto world. So, it is quite hard to compare the two without casting a light on your own preferred investment markets.

sigh

The gilt or other gov’t bonds are backed by the United Kingdom gov’t, not random Korean dude who made a coin up two years ago and ran away with your money. If you need me to explain why this is not remotely comparable, then you’ve given me everything I need to know why you’re emotionally invested in crypto.

The FX scammers? They’re the people selling trading systems, NOT the market. If you’re stupid enough to pay literal thousands to find out something that any technical analysis or financial education book or site has for free, then I guess you were going to lose that money anyway. Again, not the instrument, the people adjacent to it.

Hilariously, we see now why regulation is a thing, because I can’t lose my money because some guy on another continent pulled a fast one. See, they gave these legal entities that stop that happening. Unlike crypto, which is full of stuff like below

By the way, Celsius is bankrupt. lol

Thing is tho, that I dont really trust the UK government.
I do trust maths, Thats why I bitcoin,

Celcius is defo insolvant, but one of the first things, the very first thing that you learn going into crypto is not your keys, not your coins, I am very sorry for all those who lost through Celcius but either they knew the risk and took it anyway, or they wilfully ignored everyone shouting from the rooftops that you need to control your own keys.

I dont really "invest" in bitcoin. I believe in it, I trust it, I love it.

People go into crypto thinking that they will make money, but once they stick around for a while they realise that money is the least interesting aspect of crypto.

By the way, Celsius is bankrupt. lol

I'm pretty clued up on investing generally. I don't own crypto as I still struggle to understand parts of it and I don't invest in things I don't understand.

But it's the "lol" part. I can't take pleasure in people losing money. Why would I? Because I didn't invest in crypto so I haven't lost money? Most people wouldn't think like that.

And just for the record, much of the financial system is based on investor confidence rather than the value of underlying assets (if they exist).

Tesla was trading on a P/E ratio of 250 last year. The tech stocks have dropped by 30 to 70% over the last 6 months. My point? Investors started to question the lofty valuations, there was a downwards spiral of panic selling, along with macroeconomic issues, and value stocks are now the flavour of the month.

I have an interest only mortgage backed by ISA investments so stock market performance is a big deal to me. But I'm under little illusion that most equity investments are high risk. It took over 4 years for the FTSE 100 (considered to be one of the "safer" options) to recover from the dot.com and financial crisis falls.

@Cailleachian

Thing is tho, that I dont really trust the UK government.
I do trust maths, Thats why I bitcoin,

If the UK gov’t doesn’t pay out in such a situation, your problems won’t be “will I have Bitcoin?” It will be “when are the marauding hordes going to break in and murder me for the kilo of rice I have in the pantry.”


Celcius is defo insolvant, but one of the first things, the very first thing that you learn going into crypto is not your keys, not your coins, I am very sorry for all those who lost through Celcius but either they knew the risk and took it anyway, or they wilfully ignored everyone shouting from the rooftops that you need to control your own keys.

They clearly didn’t, because they had everyone telling them it was the best thing to throw their retirement savings into. Now they’re broke. And don’t give me “they knew the risks” when the ENTIRE crypto community is constantly harassing people who speak ill or doubt the whole thing.


I dont really "invest" in bitcoin. I believe in it, I trust it, I love it.

People go into crypto thinking that they will make money, but once they stick around for a while they realise that money is the least interesting aspect of crypto.

You sound like you’re part of a cult. And you literally cannot even explain why you’re in it.

@blue421

I'm pretty clued up on investing generally. I don't own crypto as I still struggle to understand parts of it and I don't invest in things I don't understand.


But it's the "lol" part. I can't take pleasure in people losing money. Why would I? Because I didn't invest in crypto so I haven't lost money? Most people wouldn't think like that.

And just for the record, much of the financial system is based on investor confidence rather than the value of underlying assets (if they exist).


The people who went and ignored their concerns or those of others about a HIGHLY volatile, speculative bubble based on nothing of substance deserve all they get. I certainly feel shit for any family members they’ve dragged into this, but the people who didn’t do their due diligence were going to hand that money over to some other grifter eventually. There’s nothing not obviously snake oil about crypto, but if they have online communities and Matt fucking Damon saying DO IT, then I guess they gotta do what the nice people say.

And you’re quite right, confidence is a big part of our shared reality of investing. But when confidence is shaken, you still have a house, barrel of oil, company making widgets at the end of the day. You have nothing with cryptocurrency with which to build anything up again. If the housing market crashes, I may not be able to sell for profit or get a HELOC, but I still have a damn house to live in.

Tesla was trading on a P/E ratio of 250 last year. The tech stocks have dropped by 30 to 70% over the last 6 months. My point? Investors started to question the lofty valuations, there was a downwards spiral of panic selling, along with macroeconomic issues, and value stocks are now the flavour of the month.

I have an interest only mortgage backed by ISA investments so stock market performance is a big deal to me. But I'm under little illusion that most equity investments are high risk. It took over 4 years for the FTSE 100 (considered to be one of the "safer" options) to recover from the dot.com and financial crisis falls.

Tesla is so horribly overinflated it’s not funny. It went from $50bn valuation to a trillion in a few years on the grounds that… their boss is a bit of a autist and still somehow gets people to throw money at vapourware. Amazing con, I gotta say. Watch for Tesla to meet reality any time soon, just as the rest of the FANG stocks will.

If your risk tolerance for that kind of mortgage or investment is acceptable, then that’s what you’re good with. I have known people who have their pension still in high risk instruments on the eve of their retirement and almost lost a quarter of their pension pot because of one bad month. Insane, but some people really like to keep getting mad gains even when they should be locking in more stable, realistic growth potential.

As a bonus, let me tell you how I trade scummy ol' FX.

I have a brokerage account that allows spread betting. My typical targets, depending on volatility, are about 20 pips per day. That tends to be from one market, often the Cable (GBPUSD) or maybe EURUSD. If I'm feeling those markets aren't giving me much, then on to the The Beast (GBPJPY).

Simple trading method, usually on the London session, sometimes in NY too, but basically look for pullbacks on a 5 minute chart in the direction of the VWAP with a 1:1 R:R to rule out any variance in the move that could whipsaw me out and reduce it in my returns. Two 10 pip trades and I'm done, as was the case today before the BoE announced their rate hike.

Stable little earner. Acceptable risk tolerance because stop losses are a thing, and it helps supplement my income. I may have an off day, but if two trades fail, I call it quits. This may happen once every couple weeks because I stupidly missed a news announcement in the financial calendar or New York open fucks me.

Can’t help but think this is a whole long line up for a ‘learn crypto like a bro’ course drop on us! 😂

Shhhh! You'll scare them off. That comes next week, after I've bought a tonne of Bitcoin at under $20k and need to cash out.

I’m wondering how the bitcoin and crypto community is feeling at the moment?

wasnt there someone on here with about £200k from a mortgage?

HODL 😂

A bit scared, but excited - I think there is more pain to come, but things are speeding up to a dizzying degree, a bit like when you are feeling the fear of the down rollercoaster, but see the next huge structure ahead.

Don't keep your holdings on the exchange, get a cold wallet.

What a ride.

Anyone who needs this bit of advice shouldn't really be trading.

I dont think most people who are in crypto are traders.

I mean they are the ones who get the most coverage, but (having dabbled a little) its a sure fire way to lose a load of cash if you dont know what you are doing.

Decide to Buy : Move fiat to an exchange -> move coins to cold wallet (or at least self-custody)
Decide to Sell : Move cold wallet coins to exchange -> sell for fiat to bank account

Keeping your coins on an exchange is an enormous risk as the past few days have shown. Exchanges are centralised entities and you dont own the actual coins there, just a promissory note that they will give you them when you ask, basically the same thing as a bank!

Bitcoin was an excellent investment when Matt Damon told me I just had to get in because of that Superbowl ad. I regret nothing.

That chart is crazy!!!!

Bitcoin is still an amazing investment.

Been buying a bit each month whilst it's on sale waiting for the next bull market. Another 2-3 years...