French shares, 93 year-old-mother and ID

[GreenVaseline]

Can anyone help with this very frustrating situation?

Years ago, my dad bought my mum some shares in a French company that had bought out the company he worked for. My dad died 16 years ago and since then, my mum has never done anything other than open letters telling her about dividends. It's fair to say she is financially clueless.

My mum is now 93, very deaf, and has no understanding of technology, internet etc. Last month she received a letter from Societe Generale saying that they are tightening up their security and she has to upload ID to her online account by the 21st June or they will no longer issue payments in her favour.

First problem; she does not have an online account. She's 93, deaf, and has no internet. Second problem; the ID they demanded included a passport, a driving licence, and some other things like a payslip or family record book. Obviously my mum doesn't have any of these.

I rang Societe Generale in France to ask what we should do. Although they have an English portal you cannot speak to anyone unless you enter a 6 digit password. My mum does not have one (I assume because she has no internet account). So I wrote to Societe Generale, obviously giving all her other account details, explaining the situation. They did not reply.

There is now only a week before the cutoff date for supplying the non-existent ID. What on earth do I do to try to communicate with Societe Generale? Letter ignored. Cut off on phone because I could not enter a password. And no email address on their letters.

My mum is becoming very distressed about this and frankly so am I. Anyone got any ideas about what on earth I can do?

Many thanks for any help.

Are the shares in a listed company or a private one? If listed, I would suggest opening an account with a UK based broker and transferring the shares across. You may not have to speak to Soc Gen to get this moving.

You will likely get an answer to the letters eventually, but I can't see them hurrying.

You could complain to the French equivalent of the FCA, the AMF www.amf-france.org/en/amf-ombudsman . That might get their attention.

Thanks, Hereward. Opening an account with a UK broker seems a bit scary (and possibly expensive), to be honest; I don't even know how I'd go about that.

I am frankly clueless about money matters and have no interest in trading shares in the future. I'm only getting involved in an attempt to help my mum, who keeps telling me "I'll leave it in your hands". My dad was into this sort of thing but I don't know how he managed it.

Are we even allowed to open an account on behalf of a parent? Especially as it seems Societe Generale are no longer going to acknowledge my mother as the owner of the shares after 21st June.

Bumping for you

Opening an account in the UK should be relatively cheap, and frankly painless. You could us www.ig.com/uk/investments/share-dealing/transfer-investments who will let you hold EU shares. I don't think there is a fee. You should be able to hold or sell them.

Are you allowed to open an account on your mother's behalf? Technically no, unless you have Power of Attorney. However, if it's all on line, they have no knowledge of who is pressing the buttons on your mother's behalf - and as you handle your mother's affairs, it should be fine.

Soc Gen aren't denying that your mother is the owner of the shares, just asking for ID verification for money laundering purposes. The shares will remain her property and the dividends should accrue.

Seems societé generale have an office in the U.K., you could try ringing them? www.societegenerale.co.uk/en/

Thank you Hereward, that is really helpful. No POA for my mum; she's fine with day-to-day matters but just has zero understanding of (or interest in) technology or financial matters.

Whataboutbob thanks; I've asked the UK office but they just referred me back to the telephone number for the Nantes office that I had already tried. It's automated, and if you cannot enter a 6 digit password (which my mum does not have) within three attempts you get cut off before even having the chance to speak to a human.

Depending on how far away you are, you could go and visit her and do it together, however, If you set up the account on her behalf, no one would know that she wasn't actually sat there next to you would they?

How frustrating @GreenVaseline 🙁

Is there an email address you could write to?

Do you know anyone who speaks french who could help you out?

Do you have any of these letters regarding the dividends? Can you call the number on that letter or email them with ‘ urgent’ written on it.

You could also register a letter to the address, with a letter saying that your mother is elderly etc and ask for someone to get in contact with you.

I hope you get sorted.

I think you get her to assign power of attorney, even if she doesn't need it yet.

@3luckystars

Is there an email address you could write to?

Do you know anyone who speaks french who could help you out?

Do you have any of these letters regarding the dividends? Can you call the number on that letter or email them with ‘ urgent’ written on it.

You could also register a letter to the address, with a letter saying that your mother is elderly etc and ask for someone to get in contact with you.

I hope you get sorted.

Thanks for your suggestions 3luckystars, but alas, still stuck.

No email was given.

Speaking French at this stage is the least of my problems. The issue is getting to speak to anyone at all!

Calling the number on the letter gets me to the automated system that cuts me off when I fail to supply a (nonexistent) 6 digit password.

I've already sent a very clear signed-for letter to the address, which brought no response. I've sent another one today but don't hold out much hope.

I'm a bit reluctant to set up an internet account pretending to be my mum, lest I am somehow found out and suspected to be a grasping daughter posing as her elderly mother in an attempt to get control of her shares!

Have they been paying dividends into a bank account here?

Go into her bank and ask them for help if so.

I think you could also contact a financial advisor, the fees here are £175 per hour, but might be much less where you are. You would not need long and could take the fee out of the shares once you cash them in.

They must be worth a lot now if they are over 20 years old.

I would do this now because it is only going to get even more complicated as your mother gets older.

Don't worry about the power of attorney as Soc Gen won't accept it if it's a UK one!

I'd definitely try and ask a broker first off or possibly could you send certified copy documents and a letter to Soc Gen?

I've been an attorney and then an executor for someone in France and it was hideously difficult - incredibly unhelpful and almost impenetrable to do anything financial.

Or could you try a notaire which will cost you but they're basically magicians and can work wonders!

Had your mother ever had a letter with the 6 digit code? Usually companies will write to you with the code or explain how do get one? At least that is what happened to us .

It won't be really quick but can you get your mum a passport? The Post Office do a check and send service and it usually takes 2-3 weeks for the passport to come through. If she doesn't have her birth certificate, you can get express copies online quickly too. I think you should consider POA in future. You can do it yourself at the .gov website.

Thanks, everyone. That's a good idea to ask her bank for advice on what to do. That's where her dividends have been going, I assume.

I still have no idea how many shares she actually owns or what they might be worth. It's a bit of a delicate situation really, isn't it? I don't want to sound like I'm after her money or trying to persuade her to sell her shares, but then again she has left me with the responsibility for sorting it out.

I can only imagine my mum's reaction if I suggest POA. "What! Do you think I've lost my marbles or something!"

With regard to POA, it is sensible to have it in place before there are any issues.

It ensures that you are able to act in your Mums best interests no matter what happens in the future. Unfortunately, many people leave it too late to get the necessary legal requirements in place.

It doesn't matter what age you are but you should have a POA in place as none of us knows what is around the corner. Once there are any issues at all, then it is too late as no solicitor will do the paperwork if the client is deemed to not be fully comprehending of the situation.

You can set up a POA for health and finances and have them ready for when they are needed. DH and I have had them for several years but they are not needed at the moment. (Although I have my doubts about DH sometimes)

No doubt you are all right about having POA in place. I just have a sneaking suspicion my mum might not react well to the suggestion!

Definitely get a POA in place. Your mum might be more keen if it helps you sort out this situation.

I think you may need a French lawyer or financial advisor to assist. Can you sell the shares & invest in something else instead?

If Soc Gen won’t pay dividends without ID documents I would think they’re unlikely to make a much larger payment if she cashed in the shares, or even to allow them to be transferred to another institution.

If you can register her online that’s probably your best bet.

POA is important generally and needs to be done while your mother still has her marbles as she put it, if she loses them it’s a different document which I believe is harder and more expensive to obtain. Perhaps not for this particular issue but in the coming years, especially if she’s hard of hearing so would struggle to communicate with financial institutions even in the UK. Appreciate you understand this though!

IF she fails to set up POA (with you named as the "A", ie the Attorney), then IF she "loses her marbles" it will be too late, and you would have to apply to Court to become her Attorney. This is far more expensive and can take a very long time.

Sadly, POA is something that must be set up when it is not required, as once it's required, it's often too late.

If Soc Gen won’t pay dividends without ID documents I would think they’re unlikely to make a much larger payment if she cashed in the shares, or even to allow them to be transferred to another institution.

They should allow transfer out. As long as the institution to which assets are being transferred has appropriate money laundering standards this discharges their obligations.

It is not clear from your post what is the role of Soc Gen - it sounds like they may be the registrar for the company in which your DM owns shares? Also, are the shares held in physical (ie a paper share certificate) form, or nominee (essentially an electronic entry in a shareholder registry) form? The answer to these questions may impact on next steps. I would suggest looking at the website for the company in question - under "Investor relations" or similar they may have advice about updating or transferring ownership or contacting registrar.