MNHQ here, after your thoughts on investment (the money kind)

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello all

We've been asked to speak at an upcoming event focused on women's attitudes towards investing and the investment industry - so we thought we'd ask you for your views.

Any thoughts on the following (or on related matters) would be much appreciated - thank you.

How do you manage money in your household? Do you do it all? Or do you split the duties with a partner, if you have one?

If you do split money management with someone else in your household, how do you divide the duties? Is it by timeframe (everyday vs. long term), amount (daily outlays vs. big ticket items), or something else?

Are you different from your partner when it comes to managing money in your house? What would you say each of your attitudes are? How does this affect the ways you manage money in your household?

Have you ever thought about investing in, or actually invested in a stock-market-related product? If you have, why? And if not, why not?

Thanks
MNHQ

I manage all the household finances for two reasons. 1) I never wanted to be in a position where I didn't know how to organise money - I remember an older generation of women (in my family at least) who were at a lost when their spouses died and they were totally clueless and therefore vulnerable for a long time until they could get up to speed on how to do things. 2) I don't trust my husband with this stuff. Our attitudes to money are very different. Put simply I will cut my cloth to meet my budgets, and if this means going without, delaying something or saving then fine. I check my bank accounts every day, avoid overdrafts and pay off my credit cards every month.

I have the patience to do all this and shop around for deals / structure payment plans, when frankly I know he couldn't be arsed, and I don't trust him to do it. It's not about time either - we both work full-time! He's always welcome to see the joint bank account but he always says 'later'!

Our wages are paid into separate accounts and a portion of this then gets paid into the joint household account I manage.

Big ticket household things - like a new dishwasher for example I'd discuss before buying but he'd expect me just to get on with it!

Big ticket items like a day trip out / present comes out of our individual accounts which is where our wages are paid into. We consider this our own money and so neither would be expected to justify the cost to the other although I am much more frugal (plus I earn much less) than my DP. I have raised a few eyebrows at his purchases in the past but hey, his money, so long as the bills are paid.

Investment just seems ridiculously complicated. I don't understand nor trust any of it so I shy away.

I do all financial management and investment. DH doesn't know or care about where our money is and how it is invested.

Re stock market - I used to invest in individual stocks I believed were undervalued when I worked in asset management, had a Reuter screen on my desk, and followed the markets closely. Now I don't, so my investment strategy is more general and involves investing in funds with specific focus rather than into individual stocks or currencies.

Specialsubject It's not sexism; there are plenty of empirical studies that show, on the whole, women tend to invest differently to men. They are more cautious and thoughtful regarding long-term outcomes. They are less affected by emotions and the testosterone-driven need to buy and sell in response to the latest 'big tip'. They buy and hold rather than trade frequently. They tend to miss out on the big gains and the big losses. They are the tortoises; men are the hares.

DH pays for everything, all bills, insurances etc. He transfers money in to my account as and when I ask for it. For big ticket items I put it on a credit card which he pays off (subsidiary card in my name).

This arrangement works fine for us even though sometimes I think I'd like to see what's coming in and out. We have the same attitude to money - only worry when there's not much left :)

We have a share and stock portfolio which is managed externally. I don't know how it all works but I do sit in on meetings with our portfolio manager a couple of times a year. Investing is risky business and even though we have made some good returns, we've lost huge amounts of money too.

Investing in the stock market is a zero sum game and with the advent of HFT and clever FinTech companies starting up, high-risk investment strategies rarely pay off and I'm not interested in slow/boring blue-chip stock that may (or may not) increase over many tens of years.

These days a lot of our (DH) money goes back in to/investing in DHs businesses.

I must be married to a woman then....

What ghastly generalisations!!

My views on investment are largely unprintable.
I do all the house finances because I'm an accountant.
I regret ever taking out an Endowment mortgage
I decide what gets saved where and why
DH and I have had fully merged finances for 30 years
it works for us

"Investing in the stock market is a zero sum game"

No, it is not.

I don't think you know what a zero-sum game is.

We decide on all money related matters together. Day to day spending is monitored very loosely. We have a property that we rent out, a low mortgage on the property we live in and hope to invest more in property in the next couple of years.

Though you have to have nerves of steel to admit to property investment on MN as LL's mostly get an absolute pasting.

Thanks v much all, really interesting stuff

We're interested in everyone's input - we want to get a rounded picture - so please don't feel you can only comment if you have investor chops/expertise

specialsubject the event we're speaking at is to present some research about whether women and men differ in their approaches to investment. We can't share it with you yet as it's under embargo but we will when we can.

I have my income, he has his, and we each spend what we need to. I buy nearly all groceries and clothes, apart from he buys his own clothes and beer, I'm in charge of birthday and Christmas presents, he goes to the market for meat, fresh fruit and vegetables.

We're both very careful, because we have to be.

We don't invest in the stock market because we're poor.

I was raised in a different country and my family's primary focus was to save save save. No stocks and risks. We never went without. Good dual earning family only child spending endlessly on education health and nutrition. Everything else was considered a luxury. So - expensive music lessons for me? Yes. New shoes? No, one pair of shoes is fine.

Now as a family - I handle all finances. I am a leader DH a follower. I earn slightly more. I handle banking day to day saving everything. We also maintains separate salary accounts. I save lots in my individual ISA and savings.

We don't take risks and don't invest. Just save save save.

DH and I used to make investment decisions together and split the work of managing our finances between us fairly equally. Which was just as well when he got ill and then died.

Lots of other younger women who have lost their partners I've met since then have struggled with their finances because of one of the following factors:

• Not being married and therefore not automatically inheriting their partner's estate/life insurance payout as they believed and/or not receiving widowed parent's benefits.
• No will in place and therefore the whole process taking a very long time and the estate incurring considerable legal fees.
• Out of panic/grief listening to 'financial advisors' from their local bank and putting life insurance payouts into high-fee low-return products without shopping around or getting independent advice.

We invested in 'stock market related products' early in our marriage, when he inherited some money that we decided to use for our children's education. We've done well with this investment, though he self-managed it and it was a steep learning curve for me to take over that so suddenly. The amount of 'products' that are next to useless and incur high fees really appals me and doubly so when I was widowed and targeted to invest in them by bank managers.

The everyday sexism of financial professionals asking me if I'll be bringing my husband to appointments is also appalling.

We agree large purchases before making them. Neither of us like credit cards however I'm more risk averse than he is... I have been more skint than him in the past which is more relevant than our genders I believe.

I 'supervise' (if that's the word) most of the day to day spending decisions and make sure we don't go overdrawn etc.

I'm not certain now female attitudes will really differ to male attitudes though?! Can that be generalised??

Oh and crucially our finances are fully merged, and we are married.

How do you manage money in your household? Do you do it all? Or do you split the duties with a partner, if you have one?
Split it. Both of our wages go into a joint account which everything comes out of. At the end of the month when we have spare money, one of us will shift it into savings.

If you do split money management with someone else in your household, how do you divide the duties? Is it by timeframe (everyday vs. long term), amount (daily outlays vs. big ticket items), or something else?
I guess my partner looks more at long-term investments. My partner really enjoys reading about investments so will read up on various bits and pieces, send me the most relevant stuff and then we'll have a chat about what we think is best to do. We both do the 'everyday' stuff equally.

Are you different from your partner when it comes to managing money in your house? What would you say each of your attitudes are? How does this affect the ways you manage money in your household?
No, we have exactly the same approach. Neither of us are flashy or materialistic. We both want to pay off the mortgage ASAP so we can be mortgage free for the rest of our lives. Then we both want to build up a good wedge so we can retire as soon as is physically possible. The only way we differ is that I'd like to work FT until I'm 48 then opt out completely, completely retire. DH wants to work FT until 40, then go PT until he's about 55 as he thinks this is more stable. I do agree with him that it's more stable but I want my working life to be 20 year maximum.

Have you ever thought about investing in, or actually invested in a stock-market-related product? If you have, why? And if not, why not?
Yes, we have some money invested in the stock market. All the financial advice says invest in stock and leave it. We have about £8,000 in stock which has gone up and down. We're resisting the temptation to move it as the most money's made by leaving things for as long as possible

I'm a bit with special subject here. DH is from Yorkshire and a family who are quite cautious with their money and unwilling to take risks or 'be above themselves'. My family in contrast were more ambitious and would find the money for things like education, pensions and property even if it meant going without, taking in lodgers etc, to do so.

So family background rather than gender. I essentially organise our financial strategy, though DH would object if he was not happy. He is completely uninterested in things like carpets or showers, and hates dealing with builders so I tend to simply get on with stuff. He now has a SIPP, and sorts that out himself, though I suggested it. In part because I needed to learn more about financial options so I could manage my mother's assets which has made our own approach a bit more thought through. Up till then it had been buy property, play off mortgage, pay for education, and keep spending on other things reasonably low.

I though that which gender held the purse strings had a regional slant. Men in the north, women in the south. Which presumably might have its origins in family traditions.

DW is good at looking around for utilities discounts etc. and she enjoys it, so she does that.

We both put an amount into the joint account for essentials. All other money is separate.

She is interested in stocks and shares, so she has mostly that kind of investment. For me, I like property - when I can have a new property it's one of my favourite things to look around for a nice one in an area that will be easy to let out.

Neither of us waste money - I couldn't live with someone who struggled from paycheck to paycheck. On the other hand, neither could I deal with having to discuss every purchase I make, so the system of just realising the other person isn't wasting money works well for us.

Kit30

That is some really good info thanks.

I think I should adopt the 13 month one- as a single working mum money is tight but I like this idea! Even just in case something breaks..

special subject if you call extensive studies into a subject 'generalisations' then that's fine. But that's the case. Women tend to be better at it, too.

www.wsj.com/articles/SB124181915279001967
www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/investing/article-2637581/Why-women-men-invest-differently.html
www.nasdaq.com/article/how-men-and-women-invest-differently-cm603682

Cote d'Azur trading is a zero-sum game because for every winner, there must be a loser. That is the definition of a zero sum game. The buyer and the seller don't have the same experience - if you win in a sale, you sell your shares when they're on a high and about to fall. If you're the buyer of those shares, you've bought something that's highly priced and about to become less valuable. To make it work you need to be on the right side of the deal. And don't forget the cost of all that trading.

Successful investors in the long term are more likely to be those who buy and hold a highly diversified portfolio which is managed in the cheapest way possible, such as an index fund.

If you take a very long term view, the stock market is a much better place for your money than a savings account. If you'd invested £100 in 1956, and left it there, it would be worth £85,000 now, before costs. I wish I'd done that when I was younger.

Wordsmith, trading is not a zero sum game because the FTSE has risen from 1000 in 1984 to 6685 today. So hypothetically you could have all winners and no losers.

wordsmith
Trading and owning shares is not a zero sum game.

I know people who bought their IBM shares in the 50's for a few cents.
the have had dividends every year and sold a few on at much greater prices to people who also then received dividends.

Inflation is a matter of fact in all countries
share prices rise by a bit more than inflation
and dividends add to the income

"Cote d'Azur trading is a zero-sum game because for every winner, there must be a loser."

That oils only be true if the stock market always stayed at the same level. A quick glance at any index will show that is not the case.

War is a zero-sum game. Investing in any market where prices fluctuate (e.g. stocks, bonds, or real estate) simply isn't.

Northern mil is the financial half, so another generalisation bites the dust.

Any financial ' professional' that suggests my financial planning is driven by my chromosomes will be flying out the door. How insulting, regardless of ' studies'. Have studies been done on how different racial groups in the same country treat money? Would it be acceptable to say that ' black people do x when it comes to finance?

I doubt it...