ICSI round: big drop from mature eggs to fertilised, success stories?

[baliandbones]

Hi everyone,

I was hoping to find out if anyone has experienced anything similar to me and my DH relating to IVF/ICSI.

We did the Antagonist Protocol after a long NHS Wales wait back in October - 8 eggs collected, 5 mature, 3 fertilised. Unfortunately, only one of those made it to blast, which was transferred on day 5 but sadly, didn’t stick. They went with ICSI over IVF.

Our second (and final) NHS Wales round of fertility treatment, which we’re in the middle of, we did the Long Protocol and ICSI again. 20 eggs were retrieved which we were over the moon about - unfortunately, I have developed a mild case of OHSS, so it was decided that a frozen transfer would be optimal. Now, I’m on medication for the next fortnight to help manage the OHSS.

So, my reason for posting, is due to the update we’ve had this morning:

• 20 eggs collected
• 17 eggs were mature
• Only 6 fertilised
• 1 of the fertilised eggs has vacuoles

The embryologist I spoke to on the phone specifically said that the drop off from mature to fertilised, really concerned her.

Now, I’m trying so hard to stay positive as 6 fertilised, despite the one with vacuoles (as it may correct itself), and I know that’s more than we had last time and we are very lucky to have confirmed fertilisation, which a lot of people don’t. But the drop really took me by surprise, I’m so disappointed. We’ve been trying to conceive since October 2021, so nearly 5 years and this round is our last hope. It would probably be helpful to mention that both me and my DH have been diagnosed with “Unexplained Fertility”, I am 32 and my DH is 33.

I guess I’m just looking for some inspiration to stay positive during the next few days. We will find out for definite on Monday (23rd March) if any embryos will be frozen, but due another phonecall on Saturday (21st March) for updates on how the 6 fertilised eggs are getting on.

Thanks for reading and to anyone who takes the time to respond 🩷

Hi @baliandbones, we did our first ivf cycle back in September. MFI, used my partners frozen (good) sperm!

nothing flagged on my side.

we retrieved 17 eggs, all 17 were mature, 7fertilised and we ended up with 3 x day 5 blasts. So same sort of drop as you…

first transfer worked and I am now 29 weeks pregnant so please don’t loose hope. Waiting for this news to day 5 was one of the hardest parts for me at the time

also, we went with a fresh transfer as I had no signs of OHSS but I got late onset OHSS once I fell pregnant (it’s how I found out I was pregnant on 8dpt) and honestly… it was not fun, I was really poorly for about 6 weeks as well as first tri sickness too 0/10 wouldn’t rate it. So frozen transfer is much less risk 🙂 xox

It is actually very common to have a large drop off when a large number of eggs are collected. Sometimes when having a large number of eggs created means they arnt a great quality so you got to weave through the not so good quality eggs to be able to use icsi on the good quality eggs. The issue i found with using icsi is there is no lee way for eggs to catch up so they cant be used. Ideally it would have been good if more were fertilised but 6 is ok. Hopefully majority of them are great quality and will make it to day 5 and good enough to freeze. I find the phone call for fertilisation is always disappointing.

Good morning @pastelheart 💛

Thank you for taking the time to respond - your message really helped! And a huge congratulations to you and your partner on your little miracle, you must be overjoyed.

The funny thing is, I was always okay with the transfer being delayed and having embryos frozen, as my acupuncturist told me that studies have shown that a frozen transfer can sometimes be more successful, which immediately stopped any concerns I had surrounding that possibility. It was more of a shock of the drop off, as we weren’t entirely aware that it happens quite frequently by the looks of things - however, like I said in the post, the embryologist specifically told me that it had concerned her, which I think was the main catalyst for feeling the need to post on Mumsnet! Despite that though, your story has really comforted me, so thank you again for taking the time to explain your experience 🥰

I hope you’re feeling better now after your nasty time dealing with OHSS - luckily, my case is only mild so I’m only a bit uncomfortable. Praying for more than 1x 5 day blast like yourself now!

Xx

Good morning @Miraclemuma03 ☺️

As I said to @pastelheart and in the OP, I think I have just been very influenced by the embryologist’s response, that being how she was “very concerned” at the drop off, as they “never have that many” - she was a nice lady to talk to, and really helpful in terms of discussing the quality of my DH’s sperm, but the concern she shared was something I appeared to immediately cling on to. I feel much better now, especially after your response and having a little nose through other forums. I guess it was just a shock, as our first round, we only lost 2 mature eggs during the fertilisation process, whereas this time, we lost 11 - wasn’t expecting such a huge jump in number this time. But your explanation makes a lot of sense and has definitely helped to alter my outlook on the results so far - thank you so much for taking the time to respond, I really do appreciate it 🧡

Xx

@baliandbones I forgot to mention too, the 3 blasts we ended up with are all really high quality (5AB X 3) so this also backs up @Miraclemuma03 response too 🙂

when we were getting day 1/2/3 updates the embryologist didn’t mention anything negative at all about our drop off, she just said drop off is expected and was reassuring the whole time, which did hep us as like you I thought wow where are all our little babies going so fast! I think sometimes people don’t realise the impact of their little comments that they give no thought too but could have a huge impact on the person listening.

and thank you, yes we are still so grateful and honestly I still can’t believe it worked! Hopefully you will be in the same position really soon as well 🩷 I also forgot to mention, I am the same age as you too so we have lots of similarities. Please do stay positive though and I’m so glad our story has helped you

for OHSS, if the clinic hasn’t recommended already the things that helped make mine better was protein shakes x 3 a day, electrolytes x2 a day and isotonic sports drinks… try not to drink just water as this can make it worse. My ovaries were STILL enlarged at a scan I had at 28 weeks so the impact of ivf on our bodies can be huge. I hope you feel better over the next few days

please let me know how your next two updates go… Will keep everything crossed for you x

@pastelheart, I noticed on another thread that you’ve mentioned you went private with London Women’s - from my experience last time, myself and my DH weren’t privy to the specific quality of our embryo, we were just told that it was low-average grade and that it had poor fragmentation. I couldn’t tell you what the specific label of it was, so I can’t even compare! Hopefully we’ll have a few this time, and it will warrant sharing what their specific grades are, so at least I have ALL the information on them. Just imagine if they’re in just as good condition as your 3 embabies 🥹 I will be absolutely thrilled after being so down in the dumps yesterday.

Oh, you got daily updates? We get an update the day after collection, then every other after that. So, egg collection was Wednesday, we had a call Thursday (yesterday), we’ll get another call tomorrow, and then the final call with results on Monday. I was speaking with a friend who has been through IVF yesterday, and she highlighted that there should be the option to opt out of updates - only because, the result will be the same on Day 5, regardless of the updates in between, and it might reduce the amount of stress or heartache on the lead up. And I agree, some people, whilst there’s no malice in it, they have little to no understanding on how their choice of words can affect someone. I suppose it can’t be helped.

Thanks for sharing that, it’s good to know that we’re the same age - age is only now starting to become a little bit of a worry factor - we started TTC when I was 27, insane that I’ve just turned 32. People used to say “Oh stop stressing, you’re only young!” but those same people are now saying “Is that considered geriatric yet?” 🙃

We were just told that I need to eat lots of protein and stay hydrated - we’ve researched online since and found that there’s more to it than that, so definitely following your advice. I hope you’re okay, I wouldn’t expect your ovaries to still be enlarged at this point, you poor thing! If we have embryos to freeze, I think we’re going to opt for the doctor consultation appointment route, instead of having to sign a waiver to confirm that we declined the consultation wait and are happy to go ahead with transfer sooner. I think giving myself a few months to recover and return to my earlier weight and fitness level will be beneficial when it comes to transfer, so hopefully my OHSS will be loooong gone by that point!

I will definitely update you tomorrow and again on Monday - thanks for taking an interest, it’s hard being surrounded by people who don’t understand, as much as they try to!

Xx

@baliandbones yes private but with Care Cardiff! We didn’t enquire for nhs funding but I am sure we wouldn’t have qualified for it. Care Cardiff was a lovely clinic. Oh that’s a shame they didn’t give anymore detail about the embryo. Are you at the same clinic this cycle? I have everything crossed for your embryos being 10/10.

no sorry not daily updates… I meant day 1/3/5 (I wrote that message before my morning coffee sorry!) so same updates as you will be getting. My clinic didn’t give day 3 updates for the reason you mentioned but I requested it and they were happy to give me that extra update in the middle.

not geriatric yet!! Telling someone trying to conceive to ‘stop stressing’ has the same effect as telling someone to calm down when they are about to blow their lid lol 😂 absolutely pointless.

I think your plan is a good one, it’s hard not to want to put the embryos back in straight away when you have waited this long to get to this stage but feeling in a good place is also important an feeling healthy is too.

I think going through ivf is a very special club to join and only people who have been in it ever get it, I am happy to support and chat though! As it can be lonely too 🩷 xx

@pastelheart, my apologies, I’ve got mixed up somewhere reading all the forums. Isn’t Care Cardiff formerly CRGW? We had a brief stint with London Women’s in 2023 for an MOT and a HyCoSy, but we had word from the NHS at the time and decided to wait instead of going private for treatment. Sometimes, I wish we hadn’t waited, but I try to stay positive about our decisions. I initially went to my GP in October 2022 and we didn’t begin treatment through the NHS until October 2025, so you definitely made the right decision in going private instead of being put on the waitlist! And yes, we’ve been with Wales Fertility Institute in Neath Portalbot Hospital for both rounds.

God, some people have no idea, do they? 😂 But I’m a lot more understanding of people when they say insensitive things now, as 9 times out of 10, it’s coming from a good place and they’re only trying to comfort us. But the geriatric comment is hard work…

Thank you so much. I don’t think my DH understood my reasons at first, but now I’ve had time to explain, he does truly agree that the break and health-kick is what is needed.

Ha! The world’s worst club, but a club that welcomes you with open arms regardless. I appreciate that and I’m hoping I’ll have some good news for you tomorrow 🧡

Xx

You guys get updates? I get a phone call day 1 with fertilisation rate after icsi and then I dont actually hear anything until I get to the clinic on transfer day so could actually turn up and have nothing to transfer. Because we live so far away from the clinic, we have to leave before the clinic opens and get there usually once the clinic opens as we are usually first on the list and thats when we get our results. We have gotten to transfer day a couple of times with the devastating news of no embryos made it to day 5. Or we have been told the embryo didnt survive thaw.

@Miraclemuma03, that’s awful that they do that to you. What clinic is that, if you don’t mind me asking? I get 2 updates; day 1 and day 3. My clinic’s process is that “if we call you on day 5, it’s bad news, if you don’t hear from us, then come in for transfer at the time we’ve given you”, so you’re waiting around all morning until your appointment, begging the phone not to ring. On this occasion, we’ll get a phonecall either way as it’s a freeze all situation, if we have any to freeze. But now I’ve heard what you’ve got to go through, I’ll count myself lucky. That’s absolutely cruel, I’ve never heard anything like that.

Just an update, @pastelheart - I had a call at 7:45 this morning, and it’s not the news we were hoping for.

• 733
• 632
• 442
• 332 x2
• Ungraded (due to high fragmentation)

The embryologist said that the 442 and 2x 332 may be considered for Day 6 freezing. I’m trying so hard to remain positive, but the numbers aren’t ideal. The embryologist even confirmed that my eggs were of high quality and there was nothing specifically wrong with my DH’s sample, so we’re still none the wiser as to what the problem is.

She said she’d phone back in the afternoon on Monday to give us the update, potentially the final update.

I really hope I can find a way to feel a bit more positive until Monday afternoon at least - we’ve got such a mixed bag, I really don’t know how to feel.

Xx

Im in Australia. My clinic is called the fertility centre in a suburb called springwood around the brisbane area.. its actually an amazing clinic, i have 3 babies from them and 1 angel baby, iv been with the clinic for 12yrs. you can technically call them for an update and they will be happy to have the embryologist ring you, it never use to be like that though, they use to ring day 1 for fertilisation, day 3 and then day 5 morning of transfer but not sure why they stopped that, I understand I dont get the update on day 5 because im already there when they are opening so no point ringing.

@baliandbones hi, so sorry for the late reply, I have been really unwell all weekend ☹️ how was your update today?

one of my embryos wasn’t where it should have been on day 5 but come day 6 it was ready to freeze, hopefully that will be the same for your 3 too xx

First round we had total failed fertilisation of 19 mature eggs, none fertilised which was a huge shock to us and the clinic. Completely heart broken. Thought that was it but decided to give it one more chance, the clinic suggested calcium ionophore/Artificial Oocyte Activation to help which it did - 21 mature eggs, 10 fertilised (so still low compared to most but so much better than the previous round) and got 7 embryos. 1st fresh transfer didn't work but the 2nd one (frozen transfer) did and is my lovely 7 month old 🥰

ICSI 2022. 6 eggs, 2 reached blast. One is our now 3 yold son. And the other is frozen ready for our next round later in the year. Worked first time, it's not all about numbers. Take care OP

@Miraclemuma03, that’s fantastic news that you’ve had so much success through your clinic, but it sounds like it was a rough journey getting there. I can’t even begin to imagine how loved your babies are! 🩷

@pastelheart Hello there 🥰 I’m so sorry to hear you’ve been so unwell, I hope you’re doing better today.

I’ve not been feeling so great myself, spent 14 hours in A&E on Sunday with OHSS, now being monitored every few days through bloods after finding high fluid levels.

So, phone-call on Monday, only one made it to blastocyst and it’s been frozen. We’ve got a 3BB and looking to get it transferred in about 3 to 4 months, give me a chance to get my body back into a healthier state and really focus on nourishing myself so I’m in the best position possible to receive our baby 🥹

Even though we only got one, the general vibe and consensus on the Saturday was that it wasn’t looking good at all… My DH and I had honestly accepted that we wouldn’t have any at all to freeze and even started talking about next steps, all the hope had gone. So, hearing we had our 3BB was absolutely incredible, we were in tears, I was shaking! Even though it’s only one chance, it only takes one, trying to stay positive 🌸

Been checking forums for 3BB success stories and there are SO MANY! 🩷

Hi @strawberrylaces12 🍓

I’m so sorry to hear about the results of your first round, absolutely devastating after putting your body through hell and getting your hopes up. I’ve never heard of “Calcium Ionophore/Artificial Oocyte Activation”, I’m going to do a little research on that now, thank you for sharing.

Also, even bigger thank you for sharing your wonderful news and bringing your baby earth-side, I’m so pleased for you 🩷 If you don’t mind me asking, what did they grade your little miracle baby? We had one frozen embryo, the rest have arrested unfortunately - but the frozen embaby has been marked as 3BB, just interested to see success stories from the same grading!

Thanks again for taking the time to share 🥰

Hey there, @HappyMamma2023 🌸

That’s precisely the kind of positive story I was looking for, thank you so much for sharing! And congratulations on your little one sticking, I can only pretend to know how that felt! Good luck for your second, sending all the love 🥰

We found out on Monday that only 1 out of the 6 made it - it’s been frozen and graded as 3BB. Going to focus on getting my health and fitness back on track to try and optimise our chances of stickiness ready for transfer in a few months!

Thanks again for sharing ❤️

Thank you 😊 the way they explained it to me is for fertilisation to happen there needs to be an influx of calcium and for whatever reason this might not be happening as there had been very early signs of fertilisation trying to happen (they could see the polar bodies but then no dividing of cells).

Our clinic do single grades for the embryos, he was an A grade. Although the A grade that was transferred before him (fresh transfer) didn't work, so I think the grades need to be taken with a pinch of salt. We got a couple more As, Bs and C from that round, in the freezer waiting for us to try in the future 🥰

I'm sorry to hear that the rest arrested, but really pleased about your frozen embryo. It really does just take one, lots of good luck with it 🤞