Failed cycle, what to ask next

[Lullabywish]

Hi Everyone, hopefully this isn't too long winded but I need advice. We have just done our 7 round of IVF and I've tested early at 10dp5dt and it's negative. We have one euploid tested embryo left. We had DS in round 5 and desperately want to give him a sibling and we have one shot left. I tested positive for sticky blood so I'm on inhixa before transfer and throughout and aspirin with a positive test. Progesterone was low last cycle so this cycle im on cyclogest 3 x a day and prontogest every third day and when tested my levels were 186 and I was told they aim for 50-100. Embryo was hatched but not fully expanded.
I have suspected endometriosis as I have cysts on my ovaries so long protocol was done although our cycle with our son was short so I'm not sure I buy that long or short makes a difference and that's me I think. Not overweight, eggs are 32, I'm now 38, don't smoke or drink. What more can I ask if the clinic? This last embryo is final. I won't do another egg collection. Any advise would be massively helpful.

Have you had a uterine biopsy ? I had this and it came back as I had a bacterial infection which I had antibiotics for to clear it up, also an Emma and Alice test, are you on probiotics to help the uterine environment at all? Some people also talk about natural killer cells , there is conflicting research on this though and not all clinic will check for this. Have you tested all the embryos that you have transferred to rule out genetic abnormalities ? I know you say you have 1 eupolid but were the rest tested if you don’t mind me asking ? Also have you checked male factor ? My partners perameters were only slightly low with usual tests .. but when he done a DNA frag test it was flagged up he had high DNA frag and so ICIS was suggested rather than IVF which we had done before with failed results. Sorry that’s all I can think of for you to test that you hadn’t already had.

I am deeply sorry for your loss we have had 6 miscarriages so know how upsetting and frustrating it can be to not get the positive you hope for and when you don’t know what to do to ‘fix’ it is even more frustrating! Hope you are ok and best of luck for your future journey

Hi @AmberRose26 thank you for messaging me. After four rounds we did test the remaining ones when we moved to a new clinic, our old clinic wasn't keen on testing. My son was the first round after we moved and had them tested.
I've never been tested for natural killer cells but a previous consultant prescribed steroids to me as a precaution after so many losses and failed implantations and I believed this helped us with our son. I had them on the round after my son that failed earlier this year against the new consultants guidance and then removed them on this last round as the research isn't there and she just didn't recommend them because the risks can outweigh any benefit.
I've never had a uterine biopsy and I've never heard of an Emma and Alice test. I will look into that.

As for male factor, my husband came back as great in all his tests and as I won't be having any more egg collections our last embryo is our last shot.
Out of the five we had tested one came back abnormal.

It's the not knowing why that I find so hard. I will have a follow up with the clinic and they will say it was probably just the embryo, when do you want to go again. I've been on this conveyor belt for nearly 6 years and it's endless isn't it.

So sorry again you have had such a hard time of it, we have been 4 years in treatment and 2 prior trying naturally, I really hope your euploid will stick for you .. you never know it might just be this last embryo that will give your little one his sibling 🙏🤞🏽✨ I really hope for you it works, there is probiotics you can take also to help the bacteria in uterus.. have you tried acupuncture? I haven’t myself but have heard alot of good stories of ladies who have tried this prior to transfer. Best of luck

@AmberRose26 do you know any good probiotics you would recommend did you take them or just the antibiotics after your biopsy?

We did say before this round that we wouldn't do it again because of the stress and the financial burden but there is no way on earth I can live with a what if like that.

Also, @AmberRose26 I have tried acupuncture. In all my cycles apart from this one I tried it. We recently moved though and have no local acupuncture clinics so it just added stress travelling to them last time.

After my antibiotics (metronidazole 400mg), I took a month worth of the ‘wild nutrition new mother biotic’ to help build up the bacteria again as I read that antibiotics can kill the good and bad bacteria.. so to try rebalance I took them and then also for two weeks I swapped and took the ‘Bio.Me Femme V’ as they have the bacteria ‘lactobacillus crispatus’ which after reading up loads on the best uterus bacteria for supporting pregnancy this one came up (just with me googling i wasn’t advised by my clinic to take these) the wild nutrition doesn’t have this strain so that’s why I switched, I only had two weeks till my transfer so I only got two weeks in as I stopped all for transfer, I also drank milk kefir for about a year which is meant to be packed full of good gut bacteria which can balance the immune system etc. I’ll add the links to the the probiotics below, they are quite pricy but you can get optibac which are a bit more affordable, whether they made a different or not I am not sure ?

I also had ongoing HPV which was flagged up on my smear test two years ago .. this cleared up a few months before my most recent transfer so not sure if that helps as it’s cleared now but I am currently positive 4+3 with my 4BB euploid FET, not sure if the bacteria infection or HPV were hindering but I also have blood thinners this time aswell which I hadn’t tried before, so it could also be this that’s helping so far ?

I have been here 6 times before so as happy and excited I am to see my positive this transfer, I know it can be lost at any stage so I am quietly celebrating inside 🙏✨🤞🏽and ever hopefully that 7th time lucky!

I really don’t know what else you could try, it’s seems you have tried everything, sorry I can’t be more help and fingers crossed for you !

https://www.wildnutrition.com/products/pregnancy-new-mother-biotic

https://healf.com/products/invivo-bio-me-femme-v?variant=44655940829423&sellingplan=6449955055

If you were to go again I would recommend your partner getting DNA fragmentation test, as there can still be d frag even if all parameters come back normal, CoQ10 can be taken by both you and partner to help before egg collect etc

@AmberRose26 congratulations on your positive news, that's so exciting. I understand the caution but bathe in the happiness if you can. ❤️

You have been so helpful, I have been reading about uterine environments and probiotics all night and looking at other supplements. I have always taken pregnacare but Ovum seems to be highly recommended at the moment but very pricey.

Thanks 🙏

I am also taking the wild nutrition + new mother multi , I took the pregnacare in the past but wanted to try a different multi vitamin this time, I think I got a duo - 3 for a discount , the multi vitamin, the biotic and the omega 3 pregnancy supplements as a deal, so all going well I’ll buy more if I get past 6 weeks ✨🤞🏽 glad I could be of some help and good luck again 💛

Sorry also just thinking have you used embryo glue at all in any transfers ? Out our 7 transfers twice we didn’t use it we had negative results them times .. the 5 times we used it we got 5 implantations (although they later came away at different times), it could be coincidence but each time we used the embryo glue it seemed to help as the twice we didn’t use it we got a negative result. Just thought it’s worth mentioning !

Hi @AmberRose26 we have used embryo glue in the past but didn't this time or with our son. We have had mixed success of implantation with it.
Can I ask, after how many transfers did they decided to do your uterine biopsy? What made them test it? 🙏🏼

It was after the 6th miscarriage and I asked specifically for it, they didn’t recommend it .. but I pushed for it .. and even when the results came back they said it was all fine, it wasn’t until my next appointment I was in and they had my file open on the computer and I mentioned ‘oh yeh and so the results were all fine for the biopsy then, that’s good’ and the nurse said yes I’ll just pull that up, I asked ‘what does that mean’ there was words under it and she looked again and said ‘oh I’ll just get the doc to check over it again “, then the doc called to say I need antibiotics for a bacterial infection.. so if I hadn’t have mentioned and specifically asked again about the results that would have been missed. I get things get missed but when you pay alot of money for treatments you expect they don’t miss something like that !?

That's what bothers me so much @AmberRose26. After 3 losses and multiple failed implantations they change my drugs but they aren't looking at other elements in my body that are stopping implantation and causing miscarriages. Is this the first round you have done since getting the biopsy done? I'm glad you finally got to the bottom of it and well done for pushing for it.

Also sorry, one more question. Once the anti biotics have cleared it do you just keep it away with probiotics or can it just come back?

@AmberRose26 also, sorry all these questions. Would you mind me asking how much the biopsy cost you? My clinic has just sent me a quote for £1840!!!! That's insane

Hi, oh not at all, glad I could help in some way, Yes this is the 1st transfer I have done since I have had the antibiotics for the bacterial infection they said I had, and I just took the prebiotic to rebalance things, I just assumed it’s gone and haven’t had it tested again, I have looked back my notes and it was called a ‘endometrial biopsy with CD138 testing for plasma cells to see if you have chronic emdometrits’ … (note this is different from endometriosis) .. so that’s what they done it was £275 for that I live in Scotland if you want I can private message you the details of the hospital? They basically put a catheter in through the cervix and then through the catheter fed a wire thing with a bit on the end that took a wee chuck/biopsy of the uterine lining, hope this helps , I think this is different from an Alice and Emma , av never had an Alice and Emma not sure if it’s the same principle or if it checks for the same things ? Hope this helps ✨🤞🏽