Secondary infertility + second round of IVF failed

[itsthehopethatgetsyou]

Just feeling a bit down / lost as to where to go from here.

I can write down the facts and realise they don’t sound good but keep hoping. Age = 41. Just got the call today following PGTa testing that our embryos from our second round of ICSI were both abnormal. First round, we got one embryo - also abnormal.

I think I had accepted on some level that this wasn’t a good news cycle because they were slow growing and borderline when frozen for testing. But - still, you can’t help but think maybe it will work out.

we have a 3 year old who we are beyond grateful to have, and also appreciate how lucky this makes us. But feel so guilty for not being able to give him a sibling.

i think I want to go for another round but it’s just such a lot and I’m not sure we’re ever going to get there. Just feeling very sorry for myself and at a loss as to what else we can do. And when we have to be more realistic.

anyone else having a wobble about whether to keep on going or losing hope?

Hello, all I can say is that I've been there, and it's awful.

Very similar circumstances too: I'm 41 (42 in a few weeks) with a 3 year old and unexplained secondary infertility. We've had 2 unsuccessful IVF rounds with a mix of chemicals/failed fresh transfers and abnormal PGT-A results from frozen embryos.

I'm sorry to say I'm not writing with much personal reassurance: I've not reached a happy end yet and the road we've chosen may not suit you at all... so please don't take my story as advice or recommendation.

Above all I want to tell you that I'm really sorry you're going through this. Your feelings are absolutely valid. And also that's it's good you're sharing this, it's a hard thing to do!

I wouldn't say I had a wobble, it was a full on crisis! At the end of our last cycle I was absolutely crushed by the outcome, in tears everyday, not able to process the disappointment, with myself, my body, the clinic team... I felt completely cut off from the rest of my life, just obsessed with IVF. I showed up for our child but not much else.

What has allowed me to move forward, was paradoxically giving up the terrible hope that was making us chase the IVF dream. From the very beginning our consultants were clear that, having passed 40, only <10% of my eggs have a chance of being genetically normal.
With my amh and follicle count they reckoned 15% chance of success per cycle. And I kept thinking that 15% is not nothing, that other couples get "lucky" all the time, just not acknowledging our predictions for success translated to 85% chance of failure.
It took the 2 hard cycles for me to actually hear the message, let it sink, and accept that it meant we were a lot more likely to fail than succeed, and to properly grieve for it.

After last cycle in June I knew I would need 3 months to get my normal period back, and so decided to take a "leave" from TTC, IVF, all of it, and just explore my feelings about giving it up.

The IVF absolutely consumed my life in the last year, so must say being able to step away from it was a relief. I felt I gained a lot of mindspace back, and came back into my old, pre-IVF self, which was reassuring. I could see that I would really grieve not having another child, but I know I could find myself again. So that really helped me with imagining what my life would be like if we stay a family of 3. And I genuinely surprised myself when I did come up with some positives in that scenario.

After that (and some more crying) we decided we care more for completing our family and having a sibling for our DC... and less for the genetic link. Consequently we decided to go ahead with donor eggs. The DE IVF is planned for next week 🤞 I am feeling hopeful of course, but I'm trying to keep in mind that it's not a golden ticket.
Of course, our DE cycle may still fail, and while this would be an end on this dream, it won't be an end of all dreams.

Sorry for a long message. I hope you'll find a lot of patience and kindness for yourself

What are your stats - AMH/AFC/FSH and how many eggs/ fertilised/ day 3s did you have each time? The cost makes things difficult but it is better not to think of the odds per round. At 41 the overall target is around 4 blasts for the statistically average chance of a euploid.

Hi @itsthehopethatgetsyou, sorry you are going through this, it is tough 😔

i was in the same position last year, did 3 ivf cycles for secondary infertility (have concieved wo support many years before), so now age was the main factor. Very good hormone levels, lots of mature eggs..10 good quality embryos over 3 cycles tested and none were euploid! Some dr wanted to continue with my eggs as good number and outcome, but we decided same as @Happibara, we want to grow and raise a child, gehetic link not so important. Then I moved to DE this year and currently had my 12w scan and nipt result, all very good, so not used to good news. We were lucky from 1st transfer, which is unfortunately not always the case.
highly recommend Path to Parenthub for donor conception support

all the best with whatever route you select xx

Thanks - sorry for being slow to reply. We’re actually on holiday so trying to make the most of it while also being very tearful - and trying not to burst into tears when I see our 3 yo building a sandcastle by himself and thinking how much I would love him to have a sibling. And for us to complete our family. I’m wondering if it’s been better to get the news while we are away rather than at home, as gives a bit more space to process.

@Happibara - I think one of the strangest things I am finding is that the cycles aren’t giving the right outcome - on reflection, I was so naive. Maybe I went into it with expectations it would just “work” as a very broad formula of injections + eggs + sperm = good to go. I suppose you need a bit of positivity to put yourself through it, but as I say, I was naive and read into the odds split too positively. It works some of the time and that would be us! And of course aware of people’s circumstances and challenges with this (one of my best friends had unsuccessful IVF) but ultimately infertility seeming like one of those things that happens to other people, before you confront it yourself.

@sirensong first round we got 3 eggs, 2 mature. 1 got to blast and away for testing (came back abnormal). That time they called and left a voicemail on the Monday to say they had the results, but didn’t actually give me them until the Friday evening - being the day before my birthday and after the week of driving myself waiting and trying to get through to them. So that was a particularly fun birthday weekend!

This time we did some progesterone priming before stims - consultant said some follicles dropped off before collection in the first round. but ended up having an extended shim period which wasn’t encouraging. Got 6 eggs, 4 mature, 2 to blast and then both abnormal.

So 3 tested and “duds” in total so far - not quite at the average number needed. What I need is a crystal ball to say that if we got to “x” number then that would work 😂

@FlatWhiteAnyone @sirensong we haven’t thought about donor eggs but interesting food for thought. We have basically done back to back cycles pretty much - started in June, egg collection then results of testing in mid July. Straight into priming in August then this round to collection in early September. It hasn’t given us much time to think about anything apart from the next immediate step.

i really hope the donor route works out and wish you all the best.

I haven’t spoken to anyone about our IVF journey in real life apart from one very close friend for the first round. I found her lovely and caring support, just regular check ins and lovely messages, to be almost claustrophobic. Draining to keep giving bad news and assurances that I was ok and no she couldn’t do anything etc - she is a great friend, but I struggled to want to talk about it.

I’m really grateful for your messages and insight - sometimes talking to strangers really is easier. Even if we have such a miserable thing in common 😂. So, thank you x

Are you dead set on PGTA? There are lots of studies now that casts some doubt on testing. My clinic even tried to talk me out of it but i insisted! I did a round of PGTA aged 36 - didn’t get a single normal decided not to test again but changed protocol to low dose natural modified and had success on the next transfer - which was my 5th one)
I’d be inclined to do a round without it and at least get to transfer and see what happens. Have you changed protocol at all between rounds? I found most success with very very low dose focusing on quality rather than quantity (after several losses and failed transfers)

@itsthehopethatgetsyou I know a lot of people with an only child and they're as happy as any other. Everyone should be able to have the family size they want but try to focus on the lovely image of your child building a sandcastle as a complete picture in itself, not what is absent. It reminds me of a review of a hike I read once - they realised at the end that they'd had so much on their mind they'd forgotten to look at the view.

That said, although you have low egg numbers your % conversion rate to blastocyst is actually good. In your shoes I would therefore definitely do another round if affordable. For context - my first round not only did I not get any euploids, I didn't even get any blasts. But I subsequently got 4 euploids out of 9 sent off in total at a year older than you. If you are reaching blasts you have a shot.

Hi, I’m sorry you’re going through this. I recommend reading It Starts with the Egg — it’s full of helpful advice and practical recommendations. I also agree with the previous posters about IVF with donor eggs. While it’s not a 100% guarantee, it often offers higher success rates for women over 40 compared to using their own eggs.
To better understand your personal chances, if you’re considering IVF with donor eggs, I suggest asking your doctor for specific information such as: how many cycles you might need with your own eggs versus donor eggs, how much time each option could take, and the overall cost. Sometimes, success may require 2–4 cycles with your own eggs, while it might take only 1–2 cycles with donor eggs.
I also agree with the comment that life sometimes has its own plans for us. IVF requires focus and energy, and raising a child also demands a lot of attention. Having siblings is wonderful, but I also know people who haven’t been in touch with their brothers or sisters for over 10 years.
If you’re interested in comparing prices for IVF with donor eggs, the Egg Donation Friends website recently launched a very helpful tool. It’s a great resource whether you’re just starting your journey or simply want a clear overview of this treatment option. Whatever you decide, I wish you all the best on your journey.

So sorry @itsthehopethatgetsyou . I’m kind of in the same position as you, in that I have a 3 year old son and am struggling with the idea that I won’t be able to give him a sibling. I transferred embryos made in the same round that gave me my son, but this time it ended in a chemical pregnancy which was gutting as obviously it really got my hopes up.

Although the difference between me and you is that I’m 44 now so sadly there’s absolutely no chance for me with IVF again (if I was in a position to try naturally I might have been in with a tiny shot, as some of the women in my family have had healthy babies at 45/46 as we tend to go through the menopause late - but I’m a SMBC so need IVF). So now I’m having to try to convince myself of the positives of having an only child, of which there are many of course, but I can’t say it still doesn’t really hurt sometimes.

However if you did decide to go for one last cycle, have you considered transferring 2 or more Day 3 embryos instead (and not pushing them to Day 5 and PGTA testing)? That is the route some clinics prefer to go down for older women and is what gave me my son at 41. I think the theory is that since we tend to get less embryos, they would be more likely to do better in the uterine environment with an early transfer, rather than being cultured on.

Good luck whatever you decide ❤️

Hi everyone - just by way of update, we are back from holiday and had our debrief with the consultant today. I managed to take the advice about enjoying the view as well as the hike and had a bit of a reset while we were away. We had a really lovely time, enjoying the time together in the way our family is now and our 3 yo was just delighted for us to all be in the pool / beach whatever with him.

The consultant follow up today was consistent with what others have said here - at this age, it’s a numbers game to get a normal embryo and it’s our choice whether to keep going. I think we are going to go again - same protocol as last time with the priming before the stim phase and hope that we get a bit of luck shining upon us.

I asked about the PGTA testing and whether we should continue with that approach. We concluded that we will do that again - the embryos that were tested this time had abnormalities which meant they could have implanted, but ultimately would not have been viable - so if we had gone straight to transfer, he explained how (apart from the heartbreak) there would also have been an impact on timing for trying again etc.

So we have a plan and a way ahead - and have everything crossed that we will get the end result. Thanks again to everyone’s kind words, insight and advice. 😘 xxx